Government's Roless?

[anvi]

I want to ask a basic philosophical question of the forum about the role of government in society.  I want to see if I can get a sense of the forum's basic political worldviews, but in terms that are not married to the policy issues we normally argue about here.  Let's forget, for the moment, about the current specific debates over entitlement programs, defense, foreign policy, religion.  Say you are building a government from the ground-up, and let's say your twin, primary goals in establishing a state are ensuring prosperity and justice. 

What should the government do for the citizens?

What should the government leave the citizens to do for themselves?

If you don't want to write a lot, perhaps merely list five things under each question.  I just want to get a little more of a principle-based sense of what people here think government's roles are, and what roles it properly ought not to assume.

Thanks! 

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Government should do what individual citizens cannot judiciously or effectively do for themselves.

It should:

Provide for the National Defense

Provide for Individual Defense - police and judicial protection of life, liberty, and property.

Provide for Protection of Civil Rights, Individual Freedom of Speech, Right of Association, and Religious liberty.

Provide a fair judicial system for the adjudication of disputes among citizens and between citizens and the State.
Provide for Education and basic welfare of citizens who have not reached the age of majority.

Provide a basic temporary safety net and look out for the welfare of citizens who are unable to care for themselves

Provide for standardization of commerce, currency, occupational safety, foreign and domestic trade policy; and regulation to ensure that these standards are followed.

Provide a framework by which one is considered a citizen of said country or how an individual may become a citizen

Provide for large scale infrastructure projects, including roads, power, water supplies, communications, and frontier exploration (space)

Provide for the deportation of crazy-ass libertarians who don't believe government should do even these basic things.

[TJ in Oregon]

Federal Government should:
1. Protect the lives of its citizens via military and law enforcement. The laws should be constructed to protect human life above all else.
2. Regulate the economy enough to prevent fraud, embezzlement, and other efforts to manipulate and distort the economic system for personal gain.
3. Create an immigration system that allows people to come but makes sure the right people are coming.
4. Prevent illicit drugs from entering the country and punish those who produce and use them.
5. Enact marriage benefits to foster an atmosphere where parents can be legally joined together for the purpose of producing and raising children. In my "ideal" country there would be a religious component to this but in the United States religion cannot be directly considered (though ideas of morality or justice are always part of our political considerations even though the foundations of these ideas are religious).
6. Provide funds in the most cost-effective manner possible for emergency and preventative health care for those too poor to live otherwise.
7. Print currency and regulate currency.

State Government should:
1. Build and maintain a highway system.
2. Fund public education.
3. Establish additional laws about legal/illegal social behaviors such as gambling or contraceptives or prostitution or pornography.
4. Fund scientific research in a way as to attract high-paying jobs and new businesses.
5. If the people of the state wish to establish a “safety net” for poorer people they may do so.

Local Government should:
1. Provide fire, police, and emergency health services.
2. Enact zoning laws as they see fit.
3. Carry out public education.
4. Maintain local roads and provide public transportation if in a large metropolitan area where such transit is practical.
5. Build and maintain parks and recreational facilities.
6. Devise any other local public works that provide popular services to residents in a more practical and cost-effective manner than the residents could by themselves, ie. libraries, public wi-fi, etc.

The government should not:
1. Pick winners and losers in the free market based unless the business does something illegal.
2. Provide social security. People should be expected to take care of their families including the elderly.
3. Provide general healthcare beyond what a person does not have the capacity to provide for himself.
4. Interject political views into scientific debates more than absolutely necessary to provide the basic services listed.
5. Be expected to provide basic services to citizens for long periods of time absent some serious physical handicap.
6. Enact laws and not seriously enforce them, such as underage drinking.

[dead0man]

What should the government do for the citizens?

Protect us from asshats who want to do harm. (police, Courts and jails)
Protect us from foreign militaries. (Army/Navy/AF)
Protect our borders. (proper border guards)
Have some system to know who owns what land. (some sort of land management scheme)

If the new nation is coming along nicely then start adding the superfluous stuff like libraries and public schools and organized fire protection and new roads and keeping a list of people who can use those roads.  If things are going REALLY well maybe start adding the super superfluous crap like catastrophic medical insurance, protecting other friendly nations, etc.

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uhhh...everything else?

[anvi]

Thanks for those who have contributed so far.  It's striking that no Democrats on the forum have decided to outline their vision of government.  But, some common ideas so far about what government should ensure are:

military/police
courts (along with I'm assuming standard criminal and civil law)
infrastructure
currency standardization
enact and enforce laws guaranteeing civil rights and property ownership rights
enforce laws against economic forms of criminality
formulate and enact immigration policy
provide for public education
provide temporary assistance to those who can't afford healthcare

I do find noteworthy here the recognition of a mixture of "negative rights" and "positive rights" that government should help ensure.  In other words, the citizens have negative rights not to be interfered with by the state, as regards their civil rights and their rights to own property for instance.  But they also have positive rights, the provision of education and health care for the poor and long-term disabled, forms of assistance which, if not present, would diminish a citizen's freedom.

So then, one question becomes, as a matter of principle, where does one draw the line with regard to negative and positive rights?  According to what has been volunteered so far, the state should be allowed to infringe on negative rights for purposes of security, enforcing laws and presumably with regard to economic freedom insofar as taxation will be required in some form to assure all of the state's functions.  The state also has the duty, according to what has been submitted so far, to ensure positive rights, by providing for education and assistance to the poor.  So, as a matter of principle, where does the state draw the line on negative rights it cannot impinge upon and positive rights it has no duty to provide for?  Or, is there no line in principle, but rather we only draw lines given practical considerations that are most pressing at the moment?  (There has been some disagreement about this issue so far, with TJ saying that ideally governments should be enabled to encourage marriage (perhaps a slight limitation on negative rights) and dead0man suggesting that things like public education and catastrophic medical insurance (extensions of positive rights) are under certain conditions "superfluous.")
 

[tpfkaw]

Government has no role, government should be abolished.

[feeblepizza]

To carry out its duties as directed in the Constitution. Nothing more, nothing less.

[anvi]

feeblepizza, Which constitution, the one that was written at the founding or the present one as amended?  Doesn't the very fact that the constitution can be amended allow for the possibility that our notions of negative and positive rights, and the persons these belong to, can and do change over time?

wormy:  what would be the consequences of abolishing government entirely?

[memphis]

Government has no role, government should be abolished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQkActP-isE

[Mopsus]

The roles of the government, generally, should be to protect individuals and their property from harm, enforce contracts, protect the rights of citizens, and promote the general welfare.

Ideally, the federal government would provide for the national defense, carry out diplomacy with foreign states, print and set the value of a currency (even if that means establishing a national bank to do so), levy taxes, prosecute treason, purchase and maintain federal lands, issue patents, maintain a postal service system, construct and maintain an interstate highway system, set national labor standards, set broad economic regulations, establish national government assistance programs, and create and maintain a 'federal city' (like Washington, D.C.), as well as provide monetary assistance to states to help them fulfill their obligations.

The state government would levy lesser taxes, prosecute violent crimes and crimes against property, as well as other, more specific crimes, enforce contracts, issue licenses, construct and maintain roads, bridges, and other infrastructure projects, implement more specific economic regulations, provide more comprehensive social services, maintain public universities, and provide assistance to regional governments.

The regional government would levy still lesser taxes, establish and maintain a public education system, parks and recreational services, public libraries, and other institutions of learning.

Note: It's important to remember while reading this that this is my ideal government, and I understand that different systems of government are necessary for different situations.       

[Cincinnatus]

The Role of the Federal Government:

1. Ensure National sovereignty/National Defense
2. Provide a safety net for those who CAN'T work.
3. Ensure equality/civil liberties
4. Regulate business only enough to prevent criminal practice (Subjective)
5. Maintain border security and allow foreigners the ability to become productive citizens (i.e. Foreigners who attend school in the country)
6. Print Currency
7. Foreign Diplomacy, relations, ect




The Role of States:

*Enforce Federal Law
1. Provide education
2. Provide services like fire stations, police, ect
3. Health care (Yes/No), social programs, ect
4. Infrastructure
5. Probably more that the American Federal Gov't denies to the states



Things I NEVER want to see the Government do:

1.  Get into the business of marriage
2.  "War on Drugs"  The Government has no right to tell me what drug I can/can't take
3.  Tell business where they can locate, set tariffs,  or deny businesses rights that do not constitute criminality.
4.  Favor one group over another
5.  Provide Long-term social programs to anyone that CAN provide for them-self
6.  Institute a National Religion


Of course this is a quick overview and I can guarantee I've barely touched the surface of such an idea.

[SmokingCricket]

I do not think government can (or should) legislate morality. That includes things such as: what substances you put in you (not anyone else, just you), who you have sex with (so long as they consent), the person/people you marry, what kind of firearm you own (so long as you are not a felon/mentally unstable), what god/religion you worship, etc.

Why do I have a few parenthetical markers limiting those things? Because by and large, those are protections for other people against things that they might not want. So long as you are not forcing something on another or harming them, you should be allowed to do said action. You want to smoke some grass and eat doritos on your couch? As long as you are not bothering me (and you probably will not be), go ahead. Do you want to get married to two men and three women in a plural marriage? As long as you do not make me join, go right ahead. Would you like to own a 105mm howitzer? As long as you do not fire it at me (unless I am stealing/raping/killing/burning/some other bad thing against you), go right ahead.

The role of government in the social sphere, therefore, is to ensure that social liberties are upheld and those that infringe on the liberty/well-being of others are kept in check/taken care of/whatever. Protect the people so that they can live their lives. That is the function of government.


As to economic policy, I am unsure.

[feeblepizza]

I agree with Cincy.