The mess in Cleveland, TX - sex assault of 11-yr old girl, "racism", recall ele.

[Sam Spade]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7459716.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/09assault.html?_r=1&sq=assault%20texas&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1299783664-r7N5+ffr9tcyvPUzMFvogA

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7466774.html
The last article is the most recent.  The NY Times article has been criticized widely for attempting to blame the girl.  The first article is the initial one.

I've been following the story b/c it is an area I am well familiar with. The whole story does have a political aspect - henceforth why I posted here.

Cleveland, Texas, btw, is one of those places in East Texas where the South is still alive and kicking.

Thoughts?  Opinions?  What say you, opebo? [/trolling]  Or does anyone care?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Terrible--Terrible story. I hope all 18 of those men are executed. Bring back the Public Hanging!!

[Free Palestine]

That sounds very bizarre.

[Mechaman]

I'm sorry but what the F*** is wrong with those guys?
I mean a f***ing eleven year old?  I mean seriously?

[Inverted Things]

I see what you mean regarding the "blame-the-victim" tone of the New York Times account: it focuses entirely on the girl.  It looks like she was a somewhat neglected 11-year-old experimenting with ways of getting attention.  There are a lot of those in the world, and thankfully most grow out of it without any trauma like this.

This one had the poor fortune of coming across some scum who took advantage.  And if not for the existence of these scum, it would be totally and one hundred percent safe for eleven-year-old girls to experiment to their hearts content with make-up, hanging out with older teens, and so on.

[Mechaman]

Anybody who honestly thinks an eleven f***ing year old girl was asking to be gang raped deserves to die in a fire.
That's my view at least.

I mean really, what kind of asshole waste of sperm blames the rape on the victim?  No matter what their age is?

[Inverted Things]

Anybody who honestly thinks an eleven f***ing year old girl was asking to be gang raped deserves to die in a fire.
That's my view at least.

I mean really, what kind of asshole waste of sperm blames the rape on the victim?  No matter what their age is?

Mick, people have an uncanny ability to rationalize.  Indeed, human is not a rational animal, but rather a rationalizing animal.  It is unsurprising (though reprehensible), on that basis, that the perpetrator of such a crime is going to blame the victim.

As far as non-perpetrators go: people who haven't been assaulted think along these lines: "If I were assaulted, I'd fight back viciously.  She didn't fight back, so she must have been willing."  Unfortunately, a person saying this is unaware, for example, that disassociation happens in these incidents, rendering the rationalizer unable to realize the fallacy in their thinking.

[Gustaf]

Anybody who honestly thinks an eleven f***ing year old girl was asking to be gang raped deserves to die in a fire.
That's my view at least.

I mean really, what kind of asshole waste of sperm blames the rape on the victim?  No matter what their age is?

In before someone says "Don't be such a prude"

That is really a horrifying story. It's amazing how people will try and change the debate afterwards to shift the blame around to the victim.

In a moral sense, it's pretty obvious that the parents didn't do a good job of keeping an eye on their daughter but that's completely irrelevant, of course, for the responsibility the scum who did this have for their actions.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm guessing anti-death penalty people don't want to lynch these guys in the town square? 

[Horus]

Sadly in many small towns where a girl is raped the towns will automatically side with the men, regardless of the situation. It was always somehow "her fault" or she was "asking for it". Disgusting.

[opebo]

I'm guessing anti-death penalty people don't want to lynch these guys in the town square? 

I don't want to lynch them, GG.  They didn't kill anyone (though attempted murder might be a reasonable charge given the age and number of men).  Life imprisonment in the rape-house which is an american prison would be reasonable.

Anyway, the cause of this young lady's vulnerability is poverty, and we all know who is to blame for that.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm guessing anti-death penalty people don't want to lynch these guys in the town square? 

I don't want to lynch them, GG.  They didn't kill anyone (though attempted murder might be a reasonable charge given the age and number of men).  Life imprisonment in the rape-house which is an american prison would be reasonable.

Anyway, the cause of this young lady's vulnerability is poverty, and we all know who is to blame for that.

An eye for an eye.......I like it.

[Torie]

Some of the perps were minors. Where was the mother in all of this? She is the real villain it would seem.

[minionofmidas]

I hate humans' need to see black-and-gray events - and let's face it: that's all rl events - in black-and-white terms. Whether it's done to "besmirch" the girl (look what a slut she was! That exculpates the perps!) or to whitewash her (how dare you say anything bad about the victim of a dreadful crime!) makes such a tiny amount of difference that I cannot care about it.

Note the explicit threats made. This is a case of rape, which needs to be punished. Enda story really.


Unrelated note: What's with the mom's talk about these post-event telephone calls? Partly a case of not understanding the situation, the language, and the country she's in all that well?

[King]

Is there a city in Texas that isn't stolen from another state/country or named after somebody who died at the Alamo?

[Mechaman]

I'm guessing anti-death penalty people don't want to lynch these guys in the town square? 

Nah.  Let those bastards get their dues.......up their asses by some big dude named Bubba for the next x amount of years.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm guessing anti-death penalty people don't want to lynch these guys in the town square? 

Nah.  Let those bastards get their dues.......up their asses by some big dude named Bubba for the next x amount of years.

Yeah, that's opebo's suggestion as well.  These guys don't do well in prison.....hopefully they won't be segrated for their protection

[angus]

Thoughts?  Opinions? 

The mention of racism in your title was a little confounding, at first.  It wasn't till I read the third article that I understood why you wrote that.  I guess they're listed in chronological order, and the second Houston Chronicle article was written four days after the first.  Long enough for factions to form.  Also, that last story is mixing in some unrelated matter about city council elections with alleged racial motivations.  It also gives a chart with the 2010 census racial breakdown.  They're fueling whatever flames of bigotry already exist, no doubt.  Irresponsible journalism.  I also agree that the NYT article had an irresponsible spin.  The girl is being further victimized by those who blame her.  

That said, the reporting is thorough, and it's not as sensationalistic as some such stories tend to be.  And I think the nature of the story probably merits this amount of coverage.

Two things are certain:  they'll need a change of venue if they expect to get an impartial jury, and these boys are complete idiots (who would film his own crime?).  It's always hard to give an idiot a fair trial.

[opebo]

...Let those bastards get their dues.......up their asses by some big dude named Bubba for the next x amount of years.

Yeah, that's opebo's suggestion as well.  These guys don't do well in prison.....hopefully they won't be segrated for their protection

Well, in the first place I wasn't really supporting the prison-as-rape-house American method of penology, nor do I expect that these men will be assured of being raped there (I believe they are African-American). 

[Lunar]

The NYT article was flawed in its balance, but almost mechanically or accidentally so, if that makes sense.

From a birds-eye view, this sort of balance can be hard to strike 100% of the time for a large body of content, as a reporter doesn't want to search for quotes to fit a preconceived view of what people should be saying -- which would be another mistake.

And if you've been thoroughly saturated in a subject, the rape of an 11 year-old girl might just seem so obviously horrific that the brutality of the crimes got lost somewhere in the article's construction.

[GMantis]

This site gives an explanation as to why the New York Times was attempting to blame the girl.
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2011/03/12/can-you-guess-the-real-story-behind-the-story/
Of course, the site and the way they present information are rather controversial, but it's strange that the New York Times would be so forgiving towards rapists.

[Brittain33]

Isn't vdare an extreme site?

[GMantis]

Isn't vdare an extreme site?

Can't extremists be right on occasion?
Again I find it very unusual for a newspaper like the New York Times to imply that a rape victim deserved it.