Can Dean beat Bush in 2004??
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 25, 2024, 07:27:56 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
  Can Dean beat Bush in 2004??
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Can Dean beat Bush in 2004??  (Read 5830 times)
Ryan
ryanmasc
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 332


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: December 12, 2003, 03:07:53 PM »

First let me say to the sensible democrats (a dying breed Tongue) who find a Dean nomination anathema..."CALM DOWN". This is just a hypothetical question. I do believe he has now come close to locking up the nomination but will allow that its not a 100%

Secondly let me express regret for starting yet ANOTHER thread on this much overused section. I'm sure there must be an existing thread on this topic but I couldnt find it easily. So I decided to do what everyone else seems to be doing.....start a new thread everytime they have something to say Tongue Tongue Tongue
Logged
Ryan
ryanmasc
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 332


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2003, 03:10:59 PM »

Well since the obvious answer ro my question is NO, let me play devils advocate or rather allow the always useful Pen of Mr. Kristol to do that. This is an article worth reading and it sums up my personal belief on the topic.

Note to fellow Republicans: DONT LET OUR GUARD DOWN. This election wont be over till the fat lady sings. Tongue Tongue

How Dean Could Win . . .

By William Kristol
Tuesday, December 9, 2003; Page A27


Going into the final day of the college football regular season, Oklahoma was undefeated and ranked No. 1. The Sooners had the best defense in the nation, had outscored their opponents by an average of 35 points and had a nine-game winning streak against ranked teams. "OU: Among best ever?" USA Today asked (rhetorically) on Friday. Kansas State, by contrast, had three losses, and had never won a Big 12 championship. Oklahoma was favored by two touchdowns. Kansas State, of course, won, 35-7.

 
 
For the next 11 months, Republicans, conservatives and Bush campaign operatives should, on arising, immediately following their morning prayers, repeat that score aloud 10 times. Underdogs do sometimes win. Howard Dean could beat President Bush. Saying you're not overconfident (as the OU players repeatedly did) is no substitute for really not being overconfident. And if Bush loses next November, it's over. There's no BCS computer to give him another shot at the national championship in the Sugar Bowl.

Could Dean really win? Unfortunately, yes. The Democratic presidential candidate has, alas, won the popular presidential vote three times in a row -- twice, admittedly, under the guidance of the skilled Bill Clinton, but most recently with the hapless Al Gore at the helm. And demographic trends (particularly the growth in Hispanic voters) tend to favor the Democrats going into 2004.

But surely the fact that Bush is now a proven president running for reelection changes everything? Sort of. Bush is also likely to be the first president since Herbert Hoover under whom there will have been no net job creation, and the first since Lyndon Johnson whose core justification for sending U.S. soldiers to war could be widely (if unfairly) judged to have been misleading.

And President Bush will be running for reelection after a two-year period in which his party has controlled both houses of Congress. The last two times the American people confronted a president and a Congress controlled by the same party were in 1980 and 1994. The voters decided in both cases to restore what they have consistently preferred for the last two generations: divided government. Since continued GOP control of at least the House of Representatives seems ensured, the easiest way for voters to re-divide government would be to replace President Bush in 2004. And with a plurality of voters believing the country is on the wrong track, why shouldn't they boot out the incumbent president?

But is Dean a credible alternative? Was Kansas State? Dean has run a terrific primary campaign, the most impressive since Carter in 1976. It's true that, unlike Carter (and Clinton), Dean is a Northeastern liberal. But he's no Dukakis. Does anyone expect Dean to be a patsy for a Bush assault, as the Massachusetts governor was?

And how liberal is Dean anyway? He governed as a centrist in Vermont, and will certainly pivot to the center the moment he has the nomination. And one underestimates, at this point when we are all caught up in the primary season, how much of an opportunity the party's nominee has to define or redefine himself once he gets the nomination.

Thus, on domestic policy, Dean will characterize Bush as the deficit-expanding, Social Security-threatening, Constitution-amending (on marriage) radical, while positioning himself as a hard-headed, budget-balancing, federalism-respecting compassionate moderate. And on foreign and defense policy, look for Dean to say that he was and remains anti-Iraq war (as, he will point out, were lots of traditional centrist foreign policy types). But Dean will emphasize that he has never ruled out the use of force (including unilaterally). Indeed, he will say, he believes in military strength so strongly that he thinks we should increase the size of the Army by a division or two. It's Bush, Dean will point out, who's trying to deal with the new, post-Sept. 11 world with a pre-Sept. 11 military.

But what about Sept. 11? Surely Bush's response to the attacks, and his overall leadership in the war on terrorism, remain compelling reasons to keep him in office. They do for me. But while Bush is committed to victory in that war, his secretary of state seems committed to diplomatic compromise, and his secretary of defense to an odd kind of muscle-flexing-disengagement. And when Bush's chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., said on Sunday with regard to Iraq, "We're going to get out of there as quickly as we can, but not before we finish the mission at hand," one wonders: Wouldn't Howard Dean agree with that formulation? Indeed, doesn't the first half of that sentence suggest that even the most senior of Bush's subordinates haven't really internalized the president's view of the fundamental character of this war? If they haven't, will the American people grasp the need for Bush's continued leadership on Nov. 2? If not, prepare for President Dean.

The writer is editor of the Weekly Standard.

Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2003, 04:50:38 PM »

First let me say to the sensible democrats (a dying breed Tongue) who find a Dean nomination anathema..."CALM DOWN". This is just a hypothetical question. I do believe he has now come close to locking up the nomination but will allow that its not a 100%

Secondly let me express regret for starting yet ANOTHER thread on this much overused section. I'm sure there must be an existing thread on this topic but I couldnt find it easily. So I decided to do what everyone else seems to be doing.....start a new thread everytime they have something to say Tongue Tongue Tongue
I don't think Dean has the nomination locked up at all. His endorsement by Benedict Al Gore could actually hurt his chances now, as more people are seeing him as being too far to the left.
     Secondly, it would be nice if the Administrator D.Leip, would figure out a way to have a post subject search engine. Someone would be able to type a few subject words and hit enter and would be able to tell right away if there's already a post/thread on that topic. Another idea would be if a member/guest were able to just type in the last name of a person [political or governmental] and any posts/threads that are already on Atlas Forum would appear on a separate page, and then the Member/Guest could determine whether they should just continue the original thread. Just a couple of ideas Dave! After all, we political junkies diet on ideas, ideologues, hypotheses, theories, concepts, policies, and the like.
Logged
agcatter
agcat
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,740


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2003, 07:25:47 PM »

Absolutely Dean can beat Bush.  In fact, I'd say he would have to be considered the favorite.
Logged
Flying Dog
Jtfdem
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,404
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2003, 07:41:16 PM »

Absolutely Dean can beat Bush.  In fact, I'd say he would have to be considered the favorite.
gephardt is the one republicans should fear most. But dean is close behind
Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,562
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2003, 08:30:28 PM »

Oklahoma was blown away by K-State.  Sproles went wild on that defense--but Oklahoma is still going to win the national title.  LSU doesn't have a true feature back since they lost Dom Davis to the NFL last year.  OU 24, LSU 13.

Rose Bowl: Michigan 31, USC 27.
Fiesta: Ohio State 13, K-St. 3
Orange: Miami 37, FSU 14.

Dean can beat Bush.
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2003, 08:46:17 PM »

Absolutely Dean can beat Bush.  In fact, I'd say he would have to be considered the favorite.
Right. The candidate that the GOP wants to go up against is the one it can beat. Pundits have already acknowledged that that is the case. Who does the GOP fear will win the nomination? WESLEY CLARK! Picture that, along with Jonathan Edwards or Dick Gephardt as his running mate. The GOP will run and hide then.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2003, 09:21:51 PM »

Glad to see that you picked my alma mater in the Rose Bowl, MiamiU. Go Blue! Smiley
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2003, 12:34:19 AM »

Glad to see that you picked my alma mater in the Rose Bowl, MiamiU. Go Blue! Smiley
U of M Rocks! So Do You, Nym90!
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 68,045
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2003, 04:17:29 AM »

Of course Dean can beat Bush.
Of the "major" candidates only Sharpton, Mosely-Braun and Kuchinich can't.
Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,562
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2003, 11:09:16 AM »

Glad to see that you picked my alma mater in the Rose Bowl, MiamiU. Go Blue! Smiley
Despite the happy face that Carroll puts on, he is damn pissed that he isn't in the sugar Bowl.  USC is the better team, but they might not be motivated.
Aren't you upset that I picked Ohio State?  :-)

Logged
DarthKosh
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 902


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2003, 11:09:34 AM »

Of course Dean can beat Bush.
Of the "major" candidates only Sharpton, Mosely-Braun and Kuchinich can't.

Dean can beat Bush but he won't do it.
Logged
jravnsbo
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,888


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2003, 10:37:17 PM »

Die hard Big Ten fan and Big 12 fan here.  Iowa and then Nebraska are my teams.

As much as I like Michigan ( Oh yeah got to get this in IA 30, Mich 27) they won't beat USC and I have to rout for once against Big Ten.  I hate the BCS and if there was another game after these I'd be all Michigan aginst other 3--but want USC to split the title and SCREW the SYSTEM as it is a dumb one and was put in place to keep from happening what is happening, splitting the title.

I do think OK wins Sugar, but LSU has had some wars lately and the game will be a home one essentially for them.

MIA-FST--who cares! hate em both

KST beats OST I think too, man I hate to think that 2 Big Ten teams will lose, but I do.  

--Yes Dean can beat Bush But I don't think he will.


Oklahoma was blown away by K-State.  Sproles went wild on that defense--but Oklahoma is still going to win the national title.  LSU doesn't have a true feature back since they lost Dom Davis to the NFL last year.  OU 24, LSU 13.

Rose Bowl: Michigan 31, USC 27.
Fiesta: Ohio State 13, K-St. 3
Orange: Miami 37, FSU 14.

Dean can beat Bush.
Logged
jravnsbo
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,888


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2003, 10:39:04 PM »

Until Clark come sout and says, wel;l I really ama  Republican.  HA HA

Just kidding, but we all know he was until this election cycle.


Absolutely Dean can beat Bush.  In fact, I'd say he would have to be considered the favorite.
Right. The candidate that the GOP wants to go up against is the one it can beat. Pundits have already acknowledged that that is the case. Who does the GOP fear will win the nomination? WESLEY CLARK! Picture that, along with Jonathan Edwards or Dick Gephardt as his running mate. The GOP will run and hide then.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.219 seconds with 13 queries.