John Edwards just declared victory...

[Erc]

Ok, ok?  You want to challenge OH?  Fine.  Fine.  I disagree with you, but if it's to be done, it'll be done.  In both Wisconsin AND Ohio.

I wish you the best of luck in overcoming a 137,000 vote deficit.

[danwxman]

I don't think any of you guys get it. Nobody is challening any vote. Kerry/Edwards just want to wait until all the votes are counted.

[??????????]

I don't think any of you guys get it. Nobody is challening any vote. Kerry/Edwards just want to wait until all the votes are counted.

No honor left in this lousy country. I swear to god, 133k in votes. YOU LOST YOU LOST YOU LOST GET OVER IT REALLY.

[J. J.]

You have to ask if there are the votes out there.  This is part of J. J.'s Second Rule.

[danwxman]

I don't think any of you guys get it. Nobody is challening any vote. Kerry/Edwards just want to wait until all the votes are counted.

No honor left in this lousy country. I swear to god, 133k in votes. YOU LOST YOU LOST YOU LOST GET OVER IT REALLY.

LOL, I predicted Bush would win, and I think he'll win Ohio...I dunno who you're arguing with. I just agree with Kerry that we should wait until *every* vote is counted.

[MarkDel]

It's 139,000 now, but that will NOT stop the lawsuits. Kerry will NOT concede...that speech where Edwards essentially declared victory was the first salvo in the lawsuits and recounts.

[ATFFL]

Edwards should have said: 

We have run a long hard race and the end is in sight.  That end is the complete count in Ohio.  Right now that end is in doubt.  We will wait until all the votes ar ecounted in Ohio and proceed from there.  And we still believe we will be marching to victory.

Thank you for your support in the past months and your continued support while we wait for the race to conclude.


How much better would that have been than a declaration of a non-existant and unlikely victory?

[danwxman]

Edwards should have said: 

We have run a long hard race and the end is in sight.  That end is the complete count in Ohio.  Right now that end is in doubt.  We will wait until all the votes ar ecounted in Ohio and proceed from there.  And we still believe we will be marching to victory.

Thank you for your support in the past months and your continued support while we wait for the race to conclude.


How much better would that have been than a declaration of a non-existant and unlikely victory?

heh, it's Politics 101. You act like you won.

[12th Doctor]

Yeah, that's what I thought...

Mark, it is so good to have you back.  Please don't leave again. 

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

You are a classless punk. Even Pat Buchanan agreed that Kerry is right to wait this out until ALL the votes are counted in Ohio.

Not saying I disagree, but Patsy isn't exactly the world's arbiter or level-headedness and reason.

BTW, MarkDel - I'm personally VERY happy to see you back!

[Ben.]

This is just sad, good Dem candidates for the Senate like Knowles, Carson and John are dead... Kerry is too... but to be fair all the votes in all the states have to be counted before you can say who won or lost…

…to be fair all I can say is SH**!!!, I may be a Blue-Dawg but to see good Democrats up and down the country trounced like this is horrible! Knowles god damn it!   

[Umengus]

I'm beginning to agree with you to an extent -- I really don't like the DNC, nor our party's leadership, nor the way Kerry/Edwards are handling this right now.

We're not going to win -- we've lost the popular vote by 3.5% -- why can't they just realize that?

agree, we lost

[Huckleberry Finn]

Hey everybody should calm down here 8 (especially Mark. It's really nice to see you, but please try express yourself a little more civil)

The elections is over. Bush won. There is no way that Kerry could win. All that both sides have to do here now is maintain the good sprit of Atlas Forum.

[dazzleman]

Mark, it's great to have you back.

I think we need to take a wait and see attitude to the way Kerry responds in Ohio.

There's nothing wrong with counting every vote, and we should take the time to do that.  That also goes for states in which Kerry is ahead by similar margins as Bush is in Ohio, such as Pennsylvania and Michigan.

But if the votes are counted and Bush is still ahead, and Kerry and his people unleash their vicious pitbull lawyers and racial/social arsonists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, then I will back up everything you say about the Democrats, and then some.

I think that Kerry will probably concede when it become increasingly clear that he can't win.  But we do owe him an opportunity to wait until all the votes are counted.

[NHPolitico]

Welcome back.

[muon2]

I find the statement "Let's wait until all the votes are counted" inappropriate in this instance. Some have said what's so unusual about waiting. I would reply that it is very unusual for a candidate not to concede as soon as the statistical likelihood of winning is small.

Across the nation candidates from coroner to US Senator made concession speeches long before the last votes were counted. The reason was that the early returns and the statistics of the remaining vote made a come from behind win improbable. Impossible no, but candidates at all levels concede when a reversal is improbable. Among candidates its considered the same a shaking hands at the debate - a common courtesy and respect for your opponent.

I've been on both sides of the phone call and speech. It's hard on the losing end to make it, but you do it so that the electorate can move on and have closure on a process that works. It's also hard to accept that call, because one knows what the other side feels, and respect is needed there as well. If the process finds an error and a reversal takes place, then after some stunned period, you recognize that the process still works and the congratulations are reversed.

There are local candidates who refuse to concede, and they get a bad reputation for themselves and their supporters. Election night is not a football game that is played hard to the end. It's much more like a chess match where you resign when only down by a little bit. The chess player respects the fact that the opponent will win in all likelihood. Politicians should as well.

[CARLHAYDEN]

John Edwards just declared victory...

I'm probably going to get banned for saying this, and it's certainly not in the bi-partisan mood I tried to "push" in my posts yesterday, BUT...

If the Democrats refuse to concede Ohio when they are behind by 125,000 votes, and they put this country through another "recount fiasco" with no chance of victory merely for partisan gain, then you will see Republicans shooting Democrats in the streets before this is over.

Can't you mutherg left wing PIGS ever think of the country first???

The result in Ohio is not as close as the 1960 and 1976 elections that Republicans conceded for the good of the country...do the right thing here...

You've got to understand that in addition to being a 'channeler' and a 'faith healer,' Edwards is a 'clairvoyant.'  Problem is that he taps into an alternate universe.

[MarkDel]

Well, I've never been happier to admit I was wrong about something. Despite the urging of the vile ambulance chaser Edwards, John Kerry decided to eventually concede and not turn this over to the vermin in the legal profession. I was wrong...thank god.

By the way, thanks for the weclome back from John Ford, NHPolitco, Huck Finn, Dazzleman, Beef and anyone else who said so...especially my good buddy Supersoulty...who may be the only Republican in the country as happy as I am right now!

[Nym90]

I fail to see any case in Edwards' history where he chased an ambulance. Every single case that he took was perfectly legitimate, and people come to trial lawyers with their cases in the vast, vast majority of circumstances, not the other way around. That's definitely the way it has gone in my father's medical malpractice case that is currently ongoing; we are the ones who came to the lawyer, and he has given us advice but not pushed us in any way, shape, or form. We've hired him to do a job, and he's doing it.

So that characterization is just plain false. As with everyone, 5% of lawyers are scum, and 95% are good, decent, honest people who sincerely want to help others. Edwards is definitely in that 95% in my mind. You may disagree with his positions on the issues, but I fail to see anything in his personal history that would lead you to think he's scum, other than a visceral hatred of all lawyers based on an irrational assumption that the 5% are representative of the other 95%.

[MarkDel]

I fail to see any case in Edwards' history where he chased an ambulance. Every single case that he took was perfectly legitimate, and people come to trial lawyers with their cases in the vast, vast majority of circumstances, not the other way around. That's definitely the way it has gone in my father's medical malpractice case that is currently ongoing; we are the ones who came to the lawyer, and he has given us advice but not pushed us in any way, shape, or form. We've hired him to do a job, and he's doing it.

So that characterization is just plain false. As with everyone, 5% of lawyers are scum, and 95% are good, decent, honest people who sincerely want to help others. Edwards is definitely in that 95% in my mind. You may disagree with his positions on the issues, but I fail to see anything in his personal history that would lead you to think he's scum, other than a visceral hatred of all lawyers based on an irrational assumption that the 5% are representative of the other 95%.

Eric,

You tend to forget that I actually WAS a lawyer...that's why I got out of it. It's about 95-5% all right, you just have things reversed.

[© tweed]

John Edwards just declared victory...

I'm probably going to get banned for saying this, and it's certainly not in the bi-partisan mood I tried to "push" in my posts yesterday, BUT...

If the Democrats refuse to concede Ohio when they are behind by 125,000 votes, and they put this country through another "recount fiasco" with no chance of victory merely for partisan gain, then you will see Republicans shooting Democrats in the streets before this is over.

Can't you mutherg left wing PIGS ever think of the country first???

The result in Ohio is not as close as the 1960 and 1976 elections that Republicans conceded for the good of the country...do the right thing here...

When did the Kerry campaign ever suggest that they were going to recount or legally challenge Ohio?  You couldn't even wait for their actions to draw conclusions.