Socially liberal areas against gay marriage

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Though becoming less rare, does anyone find these areas at all to be rather odd? I'm having a tough time imaging the type of voter this type of place contains to exist. For example in 2000 California's gay marriage ban passed in San Mateo and Contra Costa counties, both very "latte liberal". Of course Prop 8 was destroyed in both, but I'm wondering who was voting solidly Democratic and socially liberal in 2000 and against that. And I think it passed in Palm Beach and Broward counties in Florida. Oregon's map has oddities too (Lane County!?) Then you got places like in Texas where the counties are solidly Republican, but the few Democrats are most likely affluent...yet still pass bans higher than the Republican-voting numbers. Can you really imagine someone who makes $100k a year, votes Democratic solidly, and is against gay marriage? Just seems so odd. Things are starting to make a bit more sense now.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I don't know anyone like that, glad to say. Among the people I know, everyone who is remotely socially liberal strongly supports gay marriage.

[Smash255]

Age perhaps?  Broward and Palm Beach have a large senior population.  Do some of these areas have a large senior population and/or fairly small population between the ages of 18-30?

[Brittain33]

There is almost nowhere in Florida that is socially liberal. Broward is heavily Democratic, with some chunk of that "socially liberal," but most of the other Democrats are not. Old people, yeah, not the biggest supporters of gay marriage in any party or religion. Wilton Manors and part of Ft. Lauderdale are not enough to swing a county. And I do not think there is much of any social liberalism in Palm Beach County. At best, you have indifference.

[Sensei]

There is almost nowhere in Florida that is socially liberal. Broward is heavily Democratic, with some chunk of that "socially liberal," but most of the other Democrats are not. Old people, yeah, not the biggest supporters of gay marriage in any party or religion. Wilton Manors and part of Ft. Lauderdale are not enough to swing a county. And I do not think there is much of any social liberalism in Palm Beach County. At best, you have indifference.

This assessment is correct. The only real bastions of social liberalism in Florida are the college campuses. Even then, this probably only affects Tallahassee and Gainesville.

[Brittain33]

This assessment is correct. The only real bastions of social liberalism in Florida are the college campuses. Even then, this probably only affects Tallahassee and Gainesville.

Plus the gay communities in places like Ft. Lauderdale, but in a state of 19 million that's not much at all.

[Sensei]

This assessment is correct. The only real bastions of social liberalism in Florida are the college campuses. Even then, this probably only affects Tallahassee and Gainesville.

Plus the gay communities in places like Ft. Lauderdale, but in a state of 19 million that's not much at all.

I don't know of a large gay population in Fort Lauderdale, but it's fairly significant in Miami.

[TeePee4Prez]

Easy- Older Jewish and secular/pro-choice Catholic voters.  My mom and a fair number of people I know would fit that category.  I think favortism towards gay marriage increases as age decreases even amongst some younger conservatives. 

[Rob]

Oregon's map has oddities too (Lane County!?)

Eugene was solidly opposed to the ban, but usually Democratic sister-city Springfield joined the rural and small-town conservatives to give the measure its countywide majority. Fondly known by many Eugeneans as "Springtucky," it has a local reputation as a haven for meth users, rednecks, undocumented workers, Republicans, and other unpopular groups. I guess "populists" were the deciding factor, here.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oregon's map has oddities too (Lane County!?)

Eugene was solidly opposed to the ban, but usually Democratic sister-city Springfield joined the rural and small-town conservatives to give the measure its countywide majority. Fondly known by many Eugeneans as "Springtucky," it has a local reputation as a haven for meth users, rednecks, undocumented workers, Republicans, and other unpopular groups. I guess "populists" were the deciding factor, here.

Same year though you had parental notification failing big time in Lane and that's not really a radically socially conservative position (I mean you can even be pro-choice and for it.) I really don't think I've ever met anyone who would vote to ban gay marriage and against parental notification. Maybe it's a generational thing but whatever...

[Nym90]

Palm Beach and Broward counties are not socially liberal, on the whole. The hispanics and the old people are both socially moderate on balance and vote Democratic because of economic issues.

[Brittain33]

Easy- Older Jewish and secular/pro-choice Catholic voters.  My mom and a fair number of people I know would fit that category.  I think favortism towards gay marriage increases as age decreases even amongst some younger conservatives. 

Yes... there are people who would count as socially liberal compared to their counterparts in Texas or South Carolina, who tend to be pro-choice (sometimes strongly so), feminist, and for separation of church and state. To me, this is like calling Long Island "socially liberal," and, natch, that's one place where many of these people come from. It may be so on a national scale, but it's a dated social liberalism that was avant garde in the 1980s but stuck ever since. Gay marriage developed as an issue after these people matured and it takes a new round of convincing, often through children or grandchildren, to get them to come around on it. It is not instinctive for them to support it as a socially liberal cause, as they might with an issue of, say, gender equality.

Perhaps I'm extrapolating too much from my experiences with my parents' generation.

[TeePee4Prez]

Easy- Older Jewish and secular/pro-choice Catholic voters.  My mom and a fair number of people I know would fit that category.  I think favortism towards gay marriage increases as age decreases even amongst some younger conservatives. 

Yes... there are people who would count as socially liberal compared to their counterparts in Texas or South Carolina, who tend to be pro-choice (sometimes strongly so), feminist, and for separation of church and state. To me, this is like calling Long Island "socially liberal," and, natch, that's one place where many of these people come from. It may be so on a national scale, but it's a dated social liberalism that was avant garde in the 1980s but stuck ever since. Gay marriage developed as an issue after these people matured and it takes a new round of convincing, often through children or grandchildren, to get them to come around on it. It is not instinctive for them to support it as a socially liberal cause, as they might with an issue of, say, gender equality.

Perhaps I'm extrapolating too much from my experiences with my parents' generation.

Same holds true for SE Pennsylvania social liberals in places like NE Philadelphia and the collar counties.  I would think they're very similar in nature to Long Island.  While there's a lot of pro-choice voters amongst them, they're not as liberal as say Society Hill or 12th Street in downtown Philadelphia where I'm sure many people favro gay marriage.  Another group I forgot to mention are African Americans. 

[Smash255]

Easy- Older Jewish and secular/pro-choice Catholic voters.  My mom and a fair number of people I know would fit that category.  I think favortism towards gay marriage increases as age decreases even amongst some younger conservatives. 

Yes... there are people who would count as socially liberal compared to their counterparts in Texas or South Carolina, who tend to be pro-choice (sometimes strongly so), feminist, and for separation of church and state. To me, this is like calling Long Island "socially liberal," and, natch, that's one place where many of these people come from. It may be so on a national scale, but it's a dated social liberalism that was avant garde in the 1980s but stuck ever since. Gay marriage developed as an issue after these people matured and it takes a new round of convincing, often through children or grandchildren, to get them to come around on it. It is not instinctive for them to support it as a socially liberal cause, as they might with an issue of, say, gender equality.

Perhaps I'm extrapolating too much from my experiences with my parents' generation.

Same holds true for SE Pennsylvania social liberals in places like NE Philadelphia and the collar counties.  I would think they're very similar in nature to Long Island.  While there's a lot of pro-choice voters amongst them, they're not as liberal as say Society Hill or 12th Street in downtown Philadelphia where I'm sure many people favro gay marriage.  Another group I forgot to mention are African Americans. 

I would say a majority of people on Long Island do favor Gay Marriage, with that being said its obviously not in the same numbers as the west side of Manhattan, and they have more support for other socially liberal issues (such as pro-choice) but I think the support as a whole is there for it.  Any attempt to ban it would fail.

[Brittain33]

Plus the gay communities in places like Ft. Lauderdale, but in a state of 19 million that's not much at all.

I don't know of a large gay population in Fort Lauderdale, but it's fairly significant in Miami.

I'd say there may even be more gays in Fort Lauderdale than in Miami. The men are, on average, older and the scene is much more casual. I have much less experience with Miami, but I think of the people there being younger, very image conscious, and transient.

[TeePee4Prez]

Easy- Older Jewish and secular/pro-choice Catholic voters.  My mom and a fair number of people I know would fit that category.  I think favortism towards gay marriage increases as age decreases even amongst some younger conservatives. 

Yes... there are people who would count as socially liberal compared to their counterparts in Texas or South Carolina, who tend to be pro-choice (sometimes strongly so), feminist, and for separation of church and state. To me, this is like calling Long Island "socially liberal," and, natch, that's one place where many of these people come from. It may be so on a national scale, but it's a dated social liberalism that was avant garde in the 1980s but stuck ever since. Gay marriage developed as an issue after these people matured and it takes a new round of convincing, often through children or grandchildren, to get them to come around on it. It is not instinctive for them to support it as a socially liberal cause, as they might with an issue of, say, gender equality.

Perhaps I'm extrapolating too much from my experiences with my parents' generation.

Same holds true for SE Pennsylvania social liberals in places like NE Philadelphia and the collar counties.  I would think they're very similar in nature to Long Island.  While there's a lot of pro-choice voters amongst them, they're not as liberal as say Society Hill or 12th Street in downtown Philadelphia where I'm sure many people favro gay marriage.  Another group I forgot to mention are African Americans. 

I would say a majority of people on Long Island do favor Gay Marriage, with that being said its obviously not in the same numbers as the west side of Manhattan, and they have more support for other socially liberal issues (such as pro-choice) but I think the support as a whole is there for it.  Any attempt to ban it would fail.

Well, places like the west side of Manhattan and downtown Philly are obviously gonna be more socially liberal than Long Island or outer SE Pennsylvania.  I mean you guys still have Pete King in Congress and I'm sure a few populist Republican State Senators (IIRC, 8 of your 9 Sens on LI oppose choice) as we have our Dennis O'Brien's who are fairly similar to Pete King politically.    There are some older populist Catholics still in the mix in these areas I'm sure who oppose gay marriage.  Not sure how it would go around here, but I do know older would be more against and younger more in favor.     

[Brittain33]

The older suburbanites are persuadable. But how many are going to have the opportunity to be persuaded? Those with gay kids, maybe. Living in an aging suburban community means rarely encountering gay people.

[minionofmidas]

The older suburbanites are persuadable. But how many are going to have the opportunity to be persuaded? Those with gay kids, maybe. Living in an aging suburban community means rarely encountering gay people becoming aware of the many gay people you meet.

Corrected.

[Linus Van Pelt]

Strange as it may seem to those who spend their time filling out quadrants on the internet, there's plenty of people whose instinct is just to favour the status quo over any radical social change, regardless of what "direction" the change is going in any philosophical sense. If Roe v. Wade had legalized gay marriage and abortion rights were only now coming on the scene, your average moderately-but-not-too-far-left-of-centre Blue-state suburbanite would have the opposite positions on them.

[Smash255]

Easy- Older Jewish and secular/pro-choice Catholic voters.  My mom and a fair number of people I know would fit that category.  I think favortism towards gay marriage increases as age decreases even amongst some younger conservatives. 

Yes... there are people who would count as socially liberal compared to their counterparts in Texas or South Carolina, who tend to be pro-choice (sometimes strongly so), feminist, and for separation of church and state. To me, this is like calling Long Island "socially liberal," and, natch, that's one place where many of these people come from. It may be so on a national scale, but it's a dated social liberalism that was avant garde in the 1980s but stuck ever since. Gay marriage developed as an issue after these people matured and it takes a new round of convincing, often through children or grandchildren, to get them to come around on it. It is not instinctive for them to support it as a socially liberal cause, as they might with an issue of, say, gender equality.

Perhaps I'm extrapolating too much from my experiences with my parents' generation.

Same holds true for SE Pennsylvania social liberals in places like NE Philadelphia and the collar counties.  I would think they're very similar in nature to Long Island.  While there's a lot of pro-choice voters amongst them, they're not as liberal as say Society Hill or 12th Street in downtown Philadelphia where I'm sure many people favro gay marriage.  Another group I forgot to mention are African Americans. 

I would say a majority of people on Long Island do favor Gay Marriage, with that being said its obviously not in the same numbers as the west side of Manhattan, and they have more support for other socially liberal issues (such as pro-choice) but I think the support as a whole is there for it.  Any attempt to ban it would fail.

Well, places like the west side of Manhattan and downtown Philly are obviously gonna be more socially liberal than Long Island or outer SE Pennsylvania.  I mean you guys still have Pete King in Congress and I'm sure a few populist Republican State Senators (IIRC, 8 of your 9 Sens on LI oppose choice) as we have our Dennis O'Brien's who are fairly similar to Pete King politically.    There are some older populist Catholics still in the mix in these areas I'm sure who oppose gay marriage.  Not sure how it would go around here, but I do know older would be more against and younger more in favor.     

We do still have King, who was helped by Incumbent related Gerrymandering with the last redistricting, the other four LI members of Congress (Bishop, Israel, McCarthy and Ackerman) are all staunchly pro-choice and socially liberal.  I don't think any of them have voiced support in favor of Gay Marriage, but none have stated they were opposed and all voted against the FMA.

As far as the Stae Senate goes, its now 7 of 9 (Brian Foley trounced Cesar Trunzo in November).  Much of that is due to the fact is simply hard to knock off Incumbents in the State Senate (despite what happened with Trunzo).  Two of them, have been in the State Senate for at least 30 years, two more for at least 20 years (including Kemp Hannon who narrowly escaped defeat in November by relatively unknown Kristen McElroy).  All, but one have been serving for at least 10 years (Flannagan was elected in 02, and is serving his 4th term).  Meanwhile the two most recently elected to the State Senate (Johnson & Foley) are pro-choice, Johnson supports Gay-marriage, and Foley I believe does as well.  

Also as far the pro-choice issue, it actually played a pretty big role in Kathleen rice knocking off 30 year incumbent Dennis Dillon for Nassau County DA in 2005 for Dillon's pro-life views.

[Smash255]

Strange as it may seem to those who spend their time filling out quadrants on the internet, there's plenty of people whose instinct is just to favour the status quo over any radical social change, regardless of what "direction" the change is going in any philosophical sense. If Roe v. Wade had legalized gay marriage and abortion rights were only now coming on the scene, your average moderately-but-not-too-far-left-of-centre Blue-state suburbanite would have the opposite positions on them.

Perhaps, I also think the way it was being worded might have more of an impact in some of the left of center, but not far left suburbs.   For example if legalizing Gay Marriage was put up for a vote, it would likely be pretty close, but putting up an Amendment to ban it completely would likely fail big time.   Out of those who are opposed to Gay marriage, you would likely see a higher % of them also opposed to an Amendment banning it completely in many of these suburbs than other parts of the country, where you would likely see a higher % of those against it also in favor of a complete ban and an Amendment.

[phk]

Could be in a CA Asian area.

[Sbane]

Oregon's map has oddities too (Lane County!?)

Eugene was solidly opposed to the ban, but usually Democratic sister-city Springfield joined the rural and small-town conservatives to give the measure its countywide majority. Fondly known by many Eugeneans as "Springtucky," it has a local reputation as a haven for meth users, rednecks, undocumented workers, Republicans, and other unpopular groups. I guess "populists" were the deciding factor, here.

Same year though you had parental notification failing big time in Lane and that's not really a radically socially conservative position (I mean you can even be pro-choice and for it.) I really don't think I've ever met anyone who would vote to ban gay marriage and against parental notification. Maybe it's a generational thing but whatever...

The same pattern was seen in the counties in the sierra nevadas of California in 2008. They voted against parental notification by a small margin but voted against gay marriage with more than a 20 point margin. So there is more to this issue than just social liberalism. Perhaps these places are just slower to change their minds? Consider that abortion has been on the national stage for a while now whereas gay marriage has become in issue in only the last 10 years or so. Or it is a rural vs urban divide on the issue. That might explain Lane county as well as the Sierra counties. The bay area didn't vote that much differently on parental notification in comparison to gay marriage but the results were much more divergent in inland California.