All all Birthers idiots and Horrible People?

[minionofmidas]

the document he produced last year is NOT a legal birth certificate

No. It's a certified copy of one... exactly like every other "birth certificate" held by an American citizen. The certificate itself is of course held by the state.

Not it isn't!

Yes, it is.
It just is, enda story. Claiming  it isn't is like claiming Prince Philip is a nine-foot lizard... and not one of the shapeshifting type David Icke's going on about either, just a plain old nine-foot lizard.

(What it is not is a paper copy issued at the time of Obama's birth, of course.)

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Because there was no reason to.

[CARLHAYDEN]

the document he produced last year is NOT a legal birth certificate

No. It's a certified copy of one... exactly like every other "birth certificate" held by an American citizen. The certificate itself is of course held by the state.

Not it isn't!

Yes, it is.
It just is, enda story. Claiming  it isn't is like claiming Prince Philip is a nine-foot lizard... and not one of the shapeshifting type David Icke's going on about either, just a plain old nine-foot lizard.

(What it is not is a paper copy issued at the time of Obama's birth, of course.)

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Because there was no reason to.

Is a certification of live birth the same a birth certificate and an acceptable document for employment elegibility verification?

No.

A Certification of Live Birth is a short form Birth Certificate. Depending on the state it may say different things but one from Hawaii will say the name, date of birth, hour of birth, sex, city, town or location of birth, island of birth, county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name, father's race, date accepted by registrar, a certificate number and seal. The seal may be different depending on the year it was printed.

[minionofmidas]

Is a certification of live birth the same a birth certificate (...)?

No.

A Certification of Live Birth is a short form Birth Certificate.

Contradiction much?

(Actually, yes, the thing Obama released is a short form copy of a birth certificate, rather than an actual birth certificate. But the other thing you're talking about is a long form copy of a birth certificate, usually a photographic copy of the actual birth certificate - and again not the actual birth certificate, which is kept by the state and never released - they still need it.)

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What else do you want to know? Obama's mother's blood group and rhesus factor?

Is a certification of live birth (...) an acceptable document for employment elegibility verification?

No.

Yes, it is.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Is a certification of live birth the same a birth certificate (...)?

No.

A Certification of Live Birth is a short form Birth Certificate.

Contradiction much?

(Actually, yes, the thing Obama released is a short form copy of a birth certificate, rather than an actual birth certificate. But the other thing you're talking about is a long form copy of a birth certificate, usually a photographic copy of the actual birth certificate - and again not the actual birth certificate, which is kept by the state and never released - they still need it.)

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What else do you want to know? Obama's mother's blood group and rhesus factor?

Is a certification of live birth (...) an acceptable document for employment elegibility verification?

No.

Yes, it is.

Lewis,

First, you now acknowledge that what was produced was an online Certificate of Life Birth, NOT a Birth Certificate.

Second, I realize you do not understand the difference between the two documents, even though I posted a precis of the differences.

Third, certified copies of the Birth Certificate are available to the authorized parties (Obama himself, for example).

Fourth, will you please answer the question as to why Obama will not produce a true copy of the Birth Certificate (and please stop the nonsense of it being a supersecret state document).

[minionofmidas]

First, you now acknowledge that what was produced was an online Certificate of Life Birth, NOT a Birth Certificate.

Learn to read. Just learn to read. A certified photocopy of the original state file is still a certified photocopy and not the Birth Certificate itself. And that's what the thing he produced is, too. The other type is slowly disappearing, anyhow - computers have made them redundant.

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You didn't actually, you posted a precis of shared characteristics.

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This is one point of course, but nevermind. No, I have no definite opinion on why Obama chose to show the version of a copy of his birth certificate that was less hassle to procure. I'm perfectly aware that a different version would also have been procurable. I can only guess he didn't see the need. Alternatively, it might include some details of his late mother's medical history that he rightly considered nobody's business. (As to a copy certified in 1961, it might be that he doesn't own one.) Have you seen a certified copy of Bush's birth certificate? I haven't.
Anyways the point is irrelevant. All the "questions" "raised" by the birthers are just as utterly and completely answered by the shorter form.

[??????????]

Carl, I don't even have a full birth certificate. I have one that was issued to my mother by the hospital in '79. I've used it for all legal purposes, including leaving the USA, and I've had no problems with it.

[minionofmidas]

Carl, I don't even have a full birth certificate.

I don't have one either. My mother has one for me. She also has one for herself. That's unless  they've gotten lost in the ten years since I last looked at them.
There's nothing you need them for over here (okay, one I can think of actually - naturalization. But I'm a natural born citizen already.) which obviously makes the situation somewhat less than comparable.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What I wonder is why CARL is demanding that Obama release some document that basically no other Presidential candidate in history has been under pressure to do so. Demanding so implies that there's a shred of valid evidence to Obama not being born in the US, which is downright comical.

As Alcon has pointed out, this theory already requires a massive conspiracy on the part of the state of Hawaii that absolutely no one has blown the whistle on. So unless you think that scenario is more realistic than not, why even care about what documents have been released?

For the record, I don't think I have ever even seen my actual birth certificate, my parents still have my "certificate of live birth" or whatever, and they mailed it to me when I switched my driver's license to Minnesota after which I promptly gave it back to them (I was surprised to see I even needed it, I figured my North Dakota license, social security card and proof of address would be enough, but apparentely they weren't.), it used when I got my North Dakota license of course, but my parents did all the paperwork there, might've been required to enroll me in kindergarten and elementary school too but once again see the note about my parents. Really, it's a rather unimportant an in the digital age soon to be obsolete document.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Also, why would the state of Hawaii even have a record of a birth that never took place on its files? Wouldn't this require a conspiracy involving at least dozens of people?

[??????????]

What I wonder is why CARL is demanding that Obama release some document that basically no other Presidential candidate in history has been under pressure to do so. Demanding so implies that there's a shred of valid evidence to Obama not being born in the US, which is downright comical.

As Alcon has pointed out, this theory already requires a massive conspiracy on the part of the state of Hawaii that absolutely no one has blown the whistle on. So unless you think that scenario is more realistic than not, why even care about what documents have been released?

For the record, I don't think I have ever even seen my actual birth certificate, my parents still have my "certificate of live birth" or whatever, and they mailed it to me when I switched my driver's license to Minnesota after which I promptly gave it back to them (I was surprised to see I even needed it, I figured my North Dakota license, social security card and proof of address would be enough, but apparentely they weren't.), it used when I got my North Dakota license of course, but my parents did all the paperwork there, might've been required to enroll me in kindergarten and elementary school too but once again see the note about my parents. Really, it's a rather unimportant an in the digital age soon to be obsolete document.

My wife actually has a credit card sized plastic card that is a certificate of live birth. Pretty neat and convenient.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Also, why would the state of Hawaii even have a record of a birth that never took place on its files? Wouldn't this require a conspiracy involving at least dozens of people?

As I noted in my original post, I have no idea where one Barack Hussen Obama was born, and the bulk of the evidence supports the idea he was born in Hawaii.

However, there is information in the Birth Certificate which is NOT contained in the Certificate of Live Birth, which may clarify the status of the individual currently holding the office of President of the United States.

Now, the Constitution of the United States requires that one be a natural born citizen of the United States to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.

Why not simply grant the right to the media to see and make copies of the Birth Certificate, as it would resolve the matter?

[Willy Woz]

Again with the generalizations? Don't you people have any tolerance?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also, why would the state of Hawaii even have a record of a birth that never took place on its files? Wouldn't this require a conspiracy involving at least dozens of people?

As I noted in my original post, I have no idea where one Barack Hussen Obama was born, and the bulk of the evidence supports the idea he was born in Hawaii.

However, there is information in the Birth Certificate which is NOT contained in the Certificate of Live Birth, which may clarify the status of the individual currently holding the office of President of the United States.

Now, the Constitution of the United States requires that one be a natural born citizen of the United States to be eligible for the office of President of the United States.

Why not simply grant the right to the media to see and make copies of the Birth Certificate, as it would resolve the matter?

Did you demand the same of Bush?