Opinion of Croatia

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Balkan peninsula:



Remove Greece from it and imagine how it looks. Greece is an integral part of the Balkans.

Phil was probably making the mistake of many ignorant Americans of simply considering the former Yugoslavia to be the Balkans, though he should've simply said his favorite country in the former Yugoslavia instead of arguing Greece isn't in the Balkans and effectively committing No True Scotsman.

[Hash]

I never argued that Greece wasn't in the Balkans.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I never argued that Greece wasn't in the Balkans.

Right. I'm talking about Phil.

[Hash]

I never argued that Greece wasn't in the Balkans.

Right. I'm talking about Phil.

Good then.

[Keystone Phil]

Turkey most certainly doesn't have a European culture.

That's...my point.

 

The Balkan peninsula:



Remove Greece from it and imagine how it looks. Greece is an integral part of the Balkans.

Phil was probably making the mistake of many ignorant Americans of simply considering the former Yugoslavia to be the Balkans, though he should've simply said his favorite country in the former Yugoslavia instead of arguing Greece isn't in the Balkans and effectively committing No True Scotsman.

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

I never argued that Greece wasn't in the Balkans.

Right. I'm talking about Phil.

And neither did I.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Balkan peninsula:



Remove Greece from it and imagine how it looks. Greece is an integral part of the Balkans.

Phil was probably making the mistake of many ignorant Americans of simply considering the former Yugoslavia to be the Balkans, though he should've simply said his favorite country in the former Yugoslavia instead of arguing Greece isn't in the Balkans and effectively committing No True Scotsman.

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

Still "No True Scotsman"

[Keystone Phil]

Still "No True Scotsman"

Wow. Look. Whose. Talking.

You don't even try to hide that you're a Joke Poster these days...

[GMantis]

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

In a cultural sense, Greece is also part of the Balkans (This excludes modern western cultural influence, which influenced Greece earlier, but has now subsumed the rest of the Balkans as well). The main difference between Greece and the "joke countries" (why are they joke countries, by the way?) is that the former is much richer than the later, though this has been true only recently. Up to the 70s Greece had about the same living standarts as the rest of the Balkans.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

In a cultural sense, Greece is also part of the Balkans (This excludes modern western cultural influence, which influenced Greece earlier, but has now subsumed the rest of the Balkans as well). The main difference between Greece and the "joke countries" (why are they joke countries, by the way?) is that the former is much richer than the later, though this has been true only recently. Up to the 70s Greece had about the same living standarts as the rest of the Balkans.

That's true. Being a Balkan is much more than geography and culture. It's also a common mentality and character that is very distinct among the people here. Romania might not be a part of the Balkans geographically but certainly is from every other perspective.

I would say that the root of this identity is our common experience of living for 400+ years under the rule of the Ottomans. And that's why Slovenians and Turks can't be considerd Balkans. Western culture has influenced us after WWII, while the other countries in the area remained behind the Iron Curtain, but that and our much better financial situation hasn't made us ultimately to assume a (Western) European identity instead of our Balkan one. At least not yet. Actually I can say that other ex-communist countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic are more European now than Greece.

[GMantis]

They have one of the worst minority policy in the Balkans - perhaps except Turkey.
And they have not come to terms with their past (neither has Serbia, to be fair, but at least they're not officially glorifying Miloshevic).

Eh, the most acceptable of the Balkan nations.

Are you sure? They speak a scary language, after all.

That doesn't mean they aren't the most acceptable. They have their obvious negatives but enough redeeming qualities to make them the most acceptable. Your country, on the other hand, has...basically...nothing. 

I'm not going to deny that my country is much poorer than Croatia and much less European. Still, Bulgaria hasn't  recently done anything resembling Operation Storm. 
And the thing about the scary language was a joke, by the way. Though it's amusing that you seem to think that speaking a Slavic language is a drawback.

[Gustaf]

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

In a cultural sense, Greece is also part of the Balkans (This excludes modern western cultural influence, which influenced Greece earlier, but has now subsumed the rest of the Balkans as well). The main difference between Greece and the "joke countries" (why are they joke countries, by the way?) is that the former is much richer than the later, though this has been true only recently. Up to the 70s Greece had about the same living standarts as the rest of the Balkans.

That's true. Being a Balkan is much more than geography and culture. It's also a common mentality and character that is very distinct among the people here. Romania might not be a part of the Balkans geographically but certainly is from every other perspective.

I would say that the root of this identity is our common experience of living for 400+ years under the rule of the Ottomans. And that's why Slovenians and Turks can't be considerd Balkans. Western culture has influenced us after WWII, while the other countries in the area remained behind the Iron Curtain, but that and our much better financial situation hasn't made us ultimately to assume a (Western) European identity instead of our Balkan one. At least not yet. Actually I can say that other ex-communist countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic are more European now than Greece.

What are you, an idiot? Romania is not in the Balkans, see for yourself:



(this whole thread is seriously pretty failed...)

On topic, Croatia seemed like a nice enough country when I was there. Of course, the facsist roots aren't much to applaud, but on the other hand they've been pretty squeezed historically. Slovenia would probably be my favourite Balkan country (and I'm not saying which countries I'm including in my definition. So there)

[minionofmidas]

What are you, an idiot? Romania is not in the Balkans, see for yourself:

I suppose you were joking, but I would note that according to this map both Romania and Turkey are partly in the Balkans and partly not. Just like Croatia (and Serbia and Slovenia. And Greece - though I wonder what the map's creator wanted to tell us when he left Euboa grey. "I can't use paint", probably).

[Gustaf]

What are you, an idiot? Romania is not in the Balkans, see for yourself:

I suppose you were joking, but I would note that according to this map both Romania and Turkey are partly in the Balkans and partly not. Just like Croatia (and Serbia and Slovenia. And Greece - though I wonder what the map's creator wanted to tell us when he left Euboa grey. "I can't use paint", probably).

THere is no joke here. I just posted a map to display the TRUTH. You're not arguing against the map are you?

[GMantis]

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

In a cultural sense, Greece is also part of the Balkans (This excludes modern western cultural influence, which influenced Greece earlier, but has now subsumed the rest of the Balkans as well). The main difference between Greece and the "joke countries" (why are they joke countries, by the way?) is that the former is much richer than the later, though this has been true only recently. Up to the 70s Greece had about the same living standarts as the rest of the Balkans.

That's true. Being a Balkan is much more than geography and culture. It's also a common mentality and character that is very distinct among the people here. Romania might not be a part of the Balkans geographically but certainly is from every other perspective.

I would say that the root of this identity is our common experience of living for 400+ years under the rule of the Ottomans. And that's why Slovenians and Turks can't be considerd Balkans. Western culture has influenced us after WWII, while the other countries in the area remained behind the Iron Curtain, but that and our much better financial situation hasn't made us ultimately to assume a (Western) European identity instead of our Balkan one. At least not yet. Actually I can say that other ex-communist countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic are more European now than Greece.

What are you, an idiot? Romania is not in the Balkans, see for yourself:



(this whole thread is seriously pretty failed...)

On topic, Croatia seemed like a nice enough country when I was there. Of course, the facsist roots aren't much to applaud, but on the other hand they've been pretty squeezed historically. Slovenia would probably be my favourite Balkan country (and I'm not saying which countries I'm including in my definition. So there)

Romania, along with Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece and Bulgaria are Balkan countries culturally. Croatia and Slovenia are not. I think that's what he was trying to say.

[Gustaf]

Dude, are you fucking serious? I've stated several times that I know Greece is part of the Balkans! I just don't consider it culturally part of it. It is an outcast compared to the other Balkan countries. Please, please, please don't compare my geographic sense with that of most Americans. That is just wrong.

In a cultural sense, Greece is also part of the Balkans (This excludes modern western cultural influence, which influenced Greece earlier, but has now subsumed the rest of the Balkans as well). The main difference between Greece and the "joke countries" (why are they joke countries, by the way?) is that the former is much richer than the later, though this has been true only recently. Up to the 70s Greece had about the same living standarts as the rest of the Balkans.

That's true. Being a Balkan is much more than geography and culture. It's also a common mentality and character that is very distinct among the people here. Romania might not be a part of the Balkans geographically but certainly is from every other perspective.

I would say that the root of this identity is our common experience of living for 400+ years under the rule of the Ottomans. And that's why Slovenians and Turks can't be considerd Balkans. Western culture has influenced us after WWII, while the other countries in the area remained behind the Iron Curtain, but that and our much better financial situation hasn't made us ultimately to assume a (Western) European identity instead of our Balkan one. At least not yet. Actually I can say that other ex-communist countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic are more European now than Greece.

What are you, an idiot? Romania is not in the Balkans, see for yourself:



(this whole thread is seriously pretty failed...)

On topic, Croatia seemed like a nice enough country when I was there. Of course, the facsist roots aren't much to applaud, but on the other hand they've been pretty squeezed historically. Slovenia would probably be my favourite Balkan country (and I'm not saying which countries I'm including in my definition. So there)

Romania, along with Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece and Bulgaria are Balkan countries culturally. Croatia and Slovenia are not. I think that's what he was trying to say.

I know...I just found it amusing that Phil made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans and BRTD posted a (wrongly) coloured map to prove him wrong and then px75 made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans, explicitly different from the geographical definition.

I mean, you can argue back and forth about the merits of various definitions of a region but it's not as if there is a given correct answer emanating from a map. Some regions are clearly defined and some are not. It also changes with time. I would include Greece, Bulgaria and Romania if we're talking about, say, the First Balkan War. But if we're talking about what in Sweden is usually referred to as the "Balkan War" in the early 1990s I'd say they're not included. Today, Greece is not a country I would define as Balkan due to how much their history has differed in the last 2 decades. I don't think the definition catches anything about the region if you include them. Romania and Bulgaria have also had very divergent development due to being part of the Soviet bloc.

[GMantis]

I know...I just found it amusing that Phil made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans and BRTD posted a (wrongly) coloured map to prove him wrong and then px75 made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans, explicitly different from the geographical definition.

I mean, you can argue back and forth about the merits of various definitions of a region but it's not as if there is a given correct answer emanating from a map. Some regions are clearly defined and some are not. It also changes with time. I would include Greece, Bulgaria and Romania if we're talking about, say, the First Balkan War. But if we're talking about what in Sweden is usually referred to as the "Balkan War" in the early 1990s I'd say they're not included. Today, Greece is not a country I would define as Balkan due to how much their history has differed in the last 2 decades. I don't think the definition catches anything about the region if you include them. Romania and Bulgaria have also had very divergent development due to being part of the Soviet bloc.

Yes, it's certainly true that what is today regarded as Balkan should be better called Western Balkan. Pity that the term is not much used.
Still, as a historical and broadly cultural concept, the broad definition of the Balkans has some validity, as for example the voting patern of Eurovision shows

[Gustaf]

I know...I just found it amusing that Phil made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans and BRTD posted a (wrongly) coloured map to prove him wrong and then px75 made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans, explicitly different from the geographical definition.

I mean, you can argue back and forth about the merits of various definitions of a region but it's not as if there is a given correct answer emanating from a map. Some regions are clearly defined and some are not. It also changes with time. I would include Greece, Bulgaria and Romania if we're talking about, say, the First Balkan War. But if we're talking about what in Sweden is usually referred to as the "Balkan War" in the early 1990s I'd say they're not included. Today, Greece is not a country I would define as Balkan due to how much their history has differed in the last 2 decades. I don't think the definition catches anything about the region if you include them. Romania and Bulgaria have also had very divergent development due to being part of the Soviet bloc.

Yes, it's certainly true that what is today regarded as Balkan should be better called Western Balkan. Pity that the term is not much used.
Still, as a historical and broadly cultural concept, the broad definition of the Balkans has some validity, as for example the voting patern of Eurovision shows

Lol, yes. But isn't it more of an Eastern Europe thing in general? I sense that it includes countries like Russia and Armenia as well.

[GMantis]

I know...I just found it amusing that Phil made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans and BRTD posted a (wrongly) coloured map to prove him wrong and then px75 made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans, explicitly different from the geographical definition.

I mean, you can argue back and forth about the merits of various definitions of a region but it's not as if there is a given correct answer emanating from a map. Some regions are clearly defined and some are not. It also changes with time. I would include Greece, Bulgaria and Romania if we're talking about, say, the First Balkan War. But if we're talking about what in Sweden is usually referred to as the "Balkan War" in the early 1990s I'd say they're not included. Today, Greece is not a country I would define as Balkan due to how much their history has differed in the last 2 decades. I don't think the definition catches anything about the region if you include them. Romania and Bulgaria have also had very divergent development due to being part of the Soviet bloc.

Yes, it's certainly true that what is today regarded as Balkan should be better called Western Balkan. Pity that the term is not much used.
Still, as a historical and broadly cultural concept, the broad definition of the Balkans has some validity, as for example the voting patern of Eurovision shows

Lol, yes. But isn't it more of an Eastern Europe thing in general? I sense that it includes countries like Russia and Armenia as well.

It's more of a case of overlapping regions. Here's map, which while somewhat inacurrate, gives a good summary:
http://kalleboo.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/8c/8cb34908b0f3763d85a0d50f7ef530fe8b3abb59.jpg

[Gustaf]

I know...I just found it amusing that Phil made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans and BRTD posted a (wrongly) coloured map to prove him wrong and then px75 made a statement of what he considered part of the Balkans, explicitly different from the geographical definition.

I mean, you can argue back and forth about the merits of various definitions of a region but it's not as if there is a given correct answer emanating from a map. Some regions are clearly defined and some are not. It also changes with time. I would include Greece, Bulgaria and Romania if we're talking about, say, the First Balkan War. But if we're talking about what in Sweden is usually referred to as the "Balkan War" in the early 1990s I'd say they're not included. Today, Greece is not a country I would define as Balkan due to how much their history has differed in the last 2 decades. I don't think the definition catches anything about the region if you include them. Romania and Bulgaria have also had very divergent development due to being part of the Soviet bloc.

Yes, it's certainly true that what is today regarded as Balkan should be better called Western Balkan. Pity that the term is not much used.
Still, as a historical and broadly cultural concept, the broad definition of the Balkans has some validity, as for example the voting patern of Eurovision shows

Lol, yes. But isn't it more of an Eastern Europe thing in general? I sense that it includes countries like Russia and Armenia as well.

It's more of a case of overlapping regions. Here's map, which while somewhat inacurrate, gives a good summary:
http://kalleboo.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/8c/8cb34908b0f3763d85a0d50f7ef530fe8b3abb59.jpg

The link is forbidden for me.

[GMantis]

Try this one
http://languages.oberlin.edu/ethn210/sitewide-tags/slightly-innapropriate/