Pope Francis accused of making homophobic slur in a closed-door meeting

[afleitch]

In terms of religion as aesthetic, 'high church' patriarchal religions at an institutional level are aesthetically 'homosocial/sexual' and are going to attract people who either can't self navigate their sexuality, can't navigate queer society or are in a familial, communal or cultural society that won't let them.

There is a very fine line between a self destructive closet case with Jesus/God as a homosocial stand in for a relationship with perhaps some side action with other men and being a self destructive, but 'out' reactionary 'pick me' gay. The only difference really being one of slightly better social acceptance amongst conservative spaces/families which might be ebbing somewhat.

No great loss if closets are being built by those who don't appreciate the gift of their queerness. It's also the quickest route to toxifying 'trad' in the longer term.

[kaoras]

Kinda off topic but it has always amazed me how terrible his image is among left-minded Latin American Catholics that on paper should be the most excited about his papacy. I think all these gaffes play a role.

[jojoju1998]

Kinda off topic but it has always amazed me how terrible his image is among left-minded Latin American Catholics that on paper should be the most excited about his papacy. I think all these gaffes play a role.

Pope Francis has an apparently checkered past when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.... that the Western Media has not covered...

[Hindsight was 2020]

IDK how true this is, but I read somewhere that Francis believes there is an association between homosexual behaviour in the clergy and the conservative opposition to him, i.e. there's an idea that trads are disproportionately gay.

This is the greatest thing I’ve read lol.

[jojoju1998]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/11/world/europe/pope-francis-homophobic-slur.html

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/11/world/europe/pope-francis-homophobic-slur.html

He might genuinely be doing it as a bit at this point.

[afleitch]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/11/world/europe/pope-francis-homophobic-slur.html

He might genuinely be doing it as a bit at this point.

Casual homophobia is never 'a bit'. Especially if it's used as some sort of flourish for his audience.

He's the Pope. He's not fit for the office if he can't hold his tongue. And if he can't hold his tongue (...) then he's especially not fit. Even if his successor has us hanging from the gallows in comparison.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/11/world/europe/pope-francis-homophobic-slur.html

He might genuinely be doing it as a bit at this point.

Casual homophobia is never 'a bit'.

I think that no, it is, it very often is, it's just a very lazy and unfunny one.

In any case People Are Saying (I know, I know) that this one might have been misreported, and I hope to God that's the case.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I gave it some more thought and, Andrew, I think you're getting at something significant in that I do have a fairly thick skin about these things and tend to just roll my eyes at them or characterize them (even if primarily to myself) as bad jokes, whereas other queer Christians often experience them as real and serious harms. I need to get more empathetic or at least more compassionate about that.

I'm not going to give too many details here because I think they would constitute violations of a few different people's privacy, but one of the things I'm currently doing for my own parish community is, simply put, censoring homilies and reflections for our priest, a man about Pope Francis's age who doesn't have any particular yen for homophobic or sexist remarks but can get similarly offensive when talking about other religions. So I've had to develop a lot of compassion for one of these old guys who keeps expressing himself in these crass and incendiary ways. That's a big part of where I'm coming from here, and in this case it's something the priest himself understands the need for because he's aware that his understanding of what you "can say" and what you can't is not what it used to be.

And the more I think about it the more I do think that the sudden turn Archie Bunker-wards seems awfully suggestive of age-related mental problems, with Pope Francis as with my own priest.

[kia boyz '24]

Everyone surprised an octogenarian Catholic doesn't like gay people lol I'll get my mom-mom on here next time I see her or hell just go to any retirement home bingo night there are LOADS of em throughout the Northeast it kinda comes w/their territory