Pope Francis accused of making homophobic slur in a closed-door meeting

[jojoju1998]

"
Pope Francis allegedly told Italian bishops to not permit gay men to train for the priesthood, with two Italian newspapers claiming that the 87-year-old pontiff made a homophobic slur in a closed-door meeting last week.

Citing sources from inside the meeting, the Corriere della Sera and La Repubblica newspapers reported Monday that the Pope had made the comments while meeting with Italian bishops on May 20.

The newspaper articles, which were translated from Italian, claimed the Pope had said there is “frociaggine” – which translates in English to “f****try” – in some of the seminaries."

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Finally the Pope has the courage to recognize homosexuality as a sin. Good.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is a scandal in the Catholic Church?

That sounds like it would be as controversial in the Catholic Church as if a Democratic politician privately insulted Trump.

[afleitch]

The Church doesn't like it's puerile homophobia to sound puerile. So this is a miss step from them if true.

[jojoju1998]

The Church doesn't like it's puerile homophobia to sound puerile. So this is a miss step from them if true.

This isn't new for Pope Francis though.

The rumors are that, when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he used to boast that his seminary didn't have any gays in it, only REAL MEN. And that he made his seminarians, do " manual labor " because that's what " real men " do.

And that he banned seminarians from wearing cassocks because he thought it was too girlish.

And he's extremely cruel behind the scenes, and he talks sh!t about gays, and other minorities. Not even Pope Benedict XVI was that " tyrannical ".

[Battista Minola 1616]

I live in Italy and I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "frociaggine", and I have known people using "frocio" as an insult in the literal sense and also (gay) people using "frocio" as a sort-of-reclaimed generic insult for annoying people. Rather weird if true.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I wish I didn't find F****trygate as funny as I do, but I've been on the internet for way too many hours of my life.

Finally the Pope has the courage to recognize homosexuality as a sin. Good.

Genuine question: have you followed anything else Francis has said on this topic outside headlines and clickbait?

The Church doesn't like it's puerile homophobia to sound puerile. So this is a miss step from them if true.

This isn't new for Pope Francis though.

The rumors are that, when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he used to boast that his seminary didn't have any gays in it, only REAL MEN. And that he made his seminarians, do " manual labor " because that's what " real men " do.

And that he banned seminarians from wearing cassocks because he thought it was too girlish.

And he's extremely cruel behind the scenes, and he talks sh!t about gays, and other minorities. Not even Pope Benedict XVI was that " tyrannical ".

An eighty-seven-year-old Argentinian man being a macho asshole in private isn't exactly shocking if true. He still has a revealed willingness to nuke relations with other churches in order to make life somewhat more bearable for gay Catholic laypeople, which has the odd effect of making this remark simultaneously much more disappointing and much lower-stakes than it would be otherwise.

But Church leadership is consistently just plain weird about muh great and glorious seminaries. Maybe NOBODY, gay or otherwise, should be getting their formation in those places.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I wish I didn't find F****trygate as funny as I do, but I've been on the internet for way too many hours of my life.

Finally the Pope has the courage to recognize homosexuality as a sin. Good.

Genuine question: have you followed anything else Francis has said on this topic outside headlines and clickbait?

I'm aware that he hasn't done everything The Squad would want with respect to LGBTs, but he's still allowed a media perception to exist that in my view does not reflect scripture.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I wish I didn't find F****trygate as funny as I do, but I've been on the internet for way too many hours of my life.

Finally the Pope has the courage to recognize homosexuality as a sin. Good.

Genuine question: have you followed anything else Francis has said on this topic outside headlines and clickbait?

I'm aware that he hasn't done everything The Squad would want with respect to LGBTs, but he's still allowed a media perception to exist that in my view does not reflect scripture.

I wasn't aware that The Squad had papal demands, or that Francis considers their opinions when he has conversations or issues statements.

[DK_Mo82]

Francis gives the vibe of funny grandpa, as he ages, more of these moments, no disrepesct to any Roman catholics here

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I live in Italy and I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "frociaggine", and I have known people using "frocio" as an insult in the literal sense and also (gay) people using "frocio" as a sort-of-reclaimed generic insult for annoying people. Rather weird if true.

I've seen a few Tumblr screenshots on Reddit where posters claim it's a very specific term within Italian gay culture, which seems to make the Pope's alleged use of it very amusing.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I live in Italy and I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "frociaggine", and I have known people using "frocio" as an insult in the literal sense and also (gay) people using "frocio" as a sort-of-reclaimed generic insult for annoying people. Rather weird if true.

I've seen a few Tumblr screenshots on Reddit where posters claim it's a very specific term within Italian gay culture, which seems to make the Pope's alleged use of it very amusing.

I know some of those Tumblr posters and have asked a few other native Italian-speakers as well (including Battista, actually). While they don't all have the same light, funny narrativization of it, they concur that it's a surprising, disarming usage that he has to have picked up recently (rather than, say, learning from his Italian-emigrant parents when he was young).

I wish I didn't find F****trygate as funny as I do, but I've been on the internet for way too many hours of my life.

Finally the Pope has the courage to recognize homosexuality as a sin. Good.

Genuine question: have you followed anything else Francis has said on this topic outside headlines and clickbait?

I'm aware that he hasn't done everything The Squad would want with respect to LGBTs, but he's still allowed a media perception to exist that in my view does not reflect scripture.

Genuine question #2: do you think this is how Catholic theologians think or talk?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

IDK how true this is, but I read somewhere that Francis believes there is an association between homosexual behaviour in the clergy and the conservative opposition to him, i.e. there's an idea that trads are disproportionately gay.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

IDK how true this is, but I read somewhere that Francis believes there is an association between homosexual behaviour in the clergy and the conservative opposition to him, i.e. there's an idea that trads are disproportionately gay.

He might well think that. It might even have some basis in reality, although it's obviously very tough to say.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

And Francis has done another -ism, this time a remark about how women be gossiping. For an eighty-seven-year-old frankly-more-cishet-seeming-than-most-popes Peronist living and working in Italy to say something unkind about women off the cuff is about as surprising as for him to say something unkind about gay people, but two serious gaffes of this kind coming in quick succession is obviously pretty unusual for this man in particular.

I'm going to start considering the possibility of cognitive decline. As Al said about another living legend of Latin American public life:

Pretty obviously senile by this point.

Which other politicians would you categorize as senile?

If you mean seriously (as I do in this case), then ones that display clear signs of the sort of mental deterioration associated with various forms of dementia. Strange and disturbing statements that have some relation to the sorts of things the person in question might once have said are a better indication that getting names wrong and terminology confused: the false positive rate on the latter would be absurdly high. In terms of people still in leadership positions, the classic case would be Urho Kekkonen.

I hope I'm wrong about this, and in any case Francis has enough planned for late this year—trips; documents; the synod—that we can probably assume he's not mere days or weeks from death, but I think this is a possibility worth taking into account in addition to his obviously declining physical health.

[jojoju1998]

And Francis has done another -ism, this time a remark about how women be gossiping. For an eighty-seven-year-old frankly-more-cishet-seeming-than-most-popes Peronist living and working in Italy to say something unkind about women off the cuff is about as surprising as for him to say something unkind about gay people, but two serious gaffes of this kind coming in quick succession is obviously pretty unusual for this man in particular.

I'm going to start considering the possibility of cognitive decline. As Al said about another living legend of Latin American public life:

Pretty obviously senile by this point.

Which other politicians would you categorize as senile?

If you mean seriously (as I do in this case), then ones that display clear signs of the sort of mental deterioration associated with various forms of dementia. Strange and disturbing statements that have some relation to the sorts of things the person in question might once have said are a better indication that getting names wrong and terminology confused: the false positive rate on the latter would be absurdly high. In terms of people still in leadership positions, the classic case would be Urho Kekkonen.

I hope I'm wrong about this, and in any case Francis has enough planned for late this year—trips; documents; the synod—that we can probably assume he's not mere days or weeks from death, but I think this is a possibility worth taking into account in addition to his obviously declining physical health.

People can disagree with pope Benedict XVI, and he was a conservative, but that man was razor sharp until his death, and he was known for being extrmeley careful with his language.

[jojoju1998]

I wish I didn't find F****trygate as funny as I do, but I've been on the internet for way too many hours of my life.

Finally the Pope has the courage to recognize homosexuality as a sin. Good.

Genuine question: have you followed anything else Francis has said on this topic outside headlines and clickbait?

I'm aware that he hasn't done everything The Squad would want with respect to LGBTs, but he's still allowed a media perception to exist that in my view does not reflect scripture.

The Pope cares about what relatively minor American Politicians do and say. ?