Is the American Concept of " Liberal Arts" College education overextending itself ?

[jojoju1998]

Let's compare Keir Starmer, the Leader of the Labour Party in the UK, and Former President Barack Obama.


Keir Starmer :

Bachelor of Laws in 1985 from the University Of Leeds. His Undergrad.

And then a one year post graduate degree; Bachelor of Civil Law, from the University of Oxford in 1986.


Barack Obama :

B.A in Political Science from Columbia University in 1983.

And then another 4 years of Law school at Harvard to get his JD in 1991.



Which one seems more efficient ? Cheaper ? They're both educated men.

Most other countries do college the first way.

[Pres Mike]

Americans are obsessed with education. I feel like everyone who goes to college now always gets their masters.

Its just so hard to find a GOOD job. People get graduate degrees to make them stand out.

Most student loan debt in America is from grad work. Very little is from undergrad.

Once upon a time I thought about getting my masters. But I didn't. Why should I borrow 20k? I graduated college debt free. I wanted to pay off my car and save up for a house and for my wedding.

If I ever do get my masters, it'll be at a online school like WGU where I can get it for 5k.

[ingemann]

Let's compare Keir Starmer, the Leader of the Labour Party in the UK, and Former President Barack Obama.


Keir Starmer :

Bachelor of Laws in 1985 from the University Of Leeds. His Undergrad.

And then a one year post graduate degree; Bachelor of Civil Law, from the University of Oxford in 1986.


Barack Obama :

B.A in Political Science from Columbia University in 1983.

And then another 4 years of Law school at Harvard to get his JD in 1991.



Which one seems more efficient ? Cheaper ? They're both educated men.

Most other countries do college the first way.

Europe (as in the the Council of Europe an organization not connected to EU*) have made agreement to ensure comparability between European education. One of the aspect was the creation of the 3/2/3 system 3 years for a bachelor, two years for a master, and three years for a PhD (There’re of course exception). This is called the Bologna Process, named after the University of Bologna.

* which is lead by the European Council, which is not the Council of Europe or in any way connected to it.

[Skill and Chance]

Yes.  Historically the "liber" in liberal arts meant free in the sense of being free of the obligation to work due to family wealth/social status.  Selling this type of education broadly to middle class people who will need to make a living primarily from their own labor is doing them a net harm.  It was never intended to lead to a well above average income on the  other side.

[jojoju1998]

I just want a POTUS with a simple BA -- public -- and who never went any further.   Is that too much to  ask?

Imagine having an education beyond a 4-year college degree. 

So gay. 

LBJ got his Bachelor's degree in social science education from the University of Texas.

Harry Truman didn't go to College at all. Eisenhower, and Carter went to the Military Academies.

[Del Tachi]

I just want a POTUS with a simple BA -- public -- and who never went any further.   Is that too much to  ask?

Imagine having an education beyond a 4-year college degree. 

So gay. 

Trump only holds a bachelor's degree.  However, he got it from the University of Pennsylvania (a private institution.) 

[Del Tachi]

Let's compare Keir Starmer, the Leader of the Labour Party in the UK, and Former President Barack Obama.


Keir Starmer :

Bachelor of Laws in 1985 from the University Of Leeds. His Undergrad.

And then a one year post graduate degree; Bachelor of Civil Law, from the University of Oxford in 1986.


Barack Obama :

B.A in Political Science from Columbia University in 1983.

And then another 4 years of Law school at Harvard to get his JD in 1991.



Which one seems more efficient ? Cheaper ? They're both educated men.

Most other countries do college the first way.

Columbia and Harvard are much better schools than Oxford and whatever "the University of Leeds" is.  I reject your premise that Keir Starmer and Barack Obama are similarly educated.   

[Alcibiades]

Let's compare Keir Starmer, the Leader of the Labour Party in the UK, and Former President Barack Obama.


Keir Starmer :

Bachelor of Laws in 1985 from the University Of Leeds. His Undergrad.

And then a one year post graduate degree; Bachelor of Civil Law, from the University of Oxford in 1986.


Barack Obama :

B.A in Political Science from Columbia University in 1983.

And then another 4 years of Law school at Harvard to get his JD in 1991.



Which one seems more efficient ? Cheaper ? They're both educated men.

Most other countries do college the first way.

Columbia and Harvard are much better schools than Oxford and whatever "the University of Leeds" is.  I reject your premise that Keir Starmer and Barack Obama are similarly educated.   

Not sure what the grounds for this is unless you are simply convinced of the inherent superiority of the American system (in this case, if you know anything about legal education, you’ll know that the BCL is widely considered one of the most prestigious and rigorous academic postgraduate law degrees in the world). And I don’t think anyone is saying Leeds is better than Columbia and Harvard, but no need for the condescension — it’s a perfectly good university, and clearly served Starmer just fine considering he rose to the very top of his profession!