Teen girls 'engulfed' in violence and trauma, CDC finds

[GeneralMacArthur]

This thread is a complete s--tshow, but to try and get things back on track, there's a few key problems I've noticed on the rise in recent years.  And it pretty much all comes back to social media.

Let me tell you a story.  I was one of the first high schoolers to join Facebook in 2006.  Everyone at my high school joined and we spent a lot of time in the evenings sending messages to each other and making silly Facebook Groups and whatnot.  At one point another dude decided he didn't like me because I kept posting stupid animutation videos in every group.  So he would show up on my conversations with other people to tell them like, "don't listen to this guy he's a loser with no life" and go to all my posts and write "GET A LIFE!" it was very demoralizing.

Lest you imagine this guy was some gigachad jock picking on the nerdy political map maker, nope, we both just looked like average high school freshmen with stupid haircuts and band tees.  Sometimes kids just go through a douchey phase, or feel like they need to put someone else down to climb that social ladder.

I reported him to Facebook moderation, which back then was a real thing you could do, and they said, no that's not against our rules.  This bullying legitimately made me feel really bad, not because it hurt my feelings, but because I had the impression that this guy was going around social media turning everyone against me.  I ended up settling this by just walking up to him in school and punching him in the mouth.  That got me in a lot of trouble but it ended the bullying.

This was in 2006 when you could still do that sort of thing.  Nowadays everyone is so uptight about violence in schools that you could never just get in a schoolyard fight.  Meanwhile kids are doing astounding damage to each other on the internet -- far worse than someone getting punched -- and schools just seem to be oblivious.

Cyberbullying really bothered me the one time it happened to me 16 years ago.  But things are far worse today.  Back then, social media was just one of many ways that we used to communicate with each other.  We were people who all knew each other in real life, and interacted with each other in real life, and our social media profiles were just extensions of real life.  But now it's the other way around.  Social media is the center of the universe.  Kids identify more with their social media personas than their actual real life experiences.  For many, life is just an extension of social media.

That's why it's crazy to me that schools are just missing this.  Having someone go post "get a life you fat loser" on your social media profile is the 2023 version of getting punched in the mouth.  It really hurts you, because it's an attack against your social media persona, which is just as much a part of your identity as your physical face was back in 2006.  And the disturbing thing is that it's far worse.  Get punched in the mouth and it's over in a few days.  Get called a fat loser on social media and your entire social circle could see it.  And what's more, hundreds or even thousands could see it, since social media is a public forum.  If the attack post seems popular, it can make you feel like everyone is against you.

Your life can feel very fragile in high school.  Something humiliating could happen to you and you'd become a laughingstock.  Someone could decide to start bullying you and your life would be miserable.  Something could happen to make your friends not like you anymore, and you'd be all alone, just a loser sitting alone at lunch.  When you're 15 it feels like these are the worst things imaginable.  Even in college, if you gain a reputation as a "creeper" (for guys) or a "slut" (for girls) then it's incredibly damaging to your reputation, your sex life, and your chances of finding a happy relationship.

But social media makes this a million times worse.  Every single incident is broadcast to the entire school.  Every single thing you say is recorded in stone forever.  If you screw up, everyone will see it and have evidence of it that they can return to until the end of time.  It's impossible to avoid your tormenters because they have instant access to your social media persona 24/7.  No dodging them in the hallway.  No respite from the social maelstrom once school ends, or on weekends, or when you're off on vacation.  And there's no reset button -- your social media profile is permanent, if you're ruined at 15 it will feel like you're just that way forever.  I mean I can still go back on Facebook now and find the cyberbullying posts that guy made about me in 2006.

I meant to go into a lot of other things on this post -- how social media turns your whole life into a contest, how it presents you constantly with beautiful people living amazing lives and pretends like those are your peers, all the fake therapy stuff, how prominent callout culture is and how kids are constantly looking to devour each other for wrongthink, how much pressure there is adopt LGBTQ or mental illness as an identity, etc. but just the cyberbullying aspect alone I think is plenty to work off of.  I don't know how kids today get anything done with how much their world revolves around their phones.

[Ragnaroni]

Always have been.

No the male death by suicide rate is multiple times higher than the female one.

From what I've heard is that males use forms of suicide that generally have a higher chance of finishing the job (ie guns or other violent methods) while females use generally more passive forms like overdoses (which can take hours to finally kill you). A better metric would be the attempted suicide rate. I don't have any data at hand but I'm sure a good Samaritan would help us out.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Always have been.

No the male death by suicide rate is multiple times higher than the female one.

From what I've heard is that males use forms of suicide that generally have a higher chance of finishing the job (ie guns or other violent methods) while females use generally more passive forms like overdoses (which can take hours to finally kill you). A better metric would be the attempted suicide rate. I don't have any data at hand but I'm sure a good Samaritan would help us out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#:~:text=In%20the%20Western%20world%2C%20males,times%20more%20frequent%20among%20females

Suicide attempts are between two and four times more frequent among females.

[Vice President Christian Man]

TikTok is Manchurian app designed by the Chinese to destroy America.

We get it, you don’t like popular things and need a reason to hate them even if you have no evidence.

It is an app designed and owned by a Chinese company with connections to the Chinese government that has been used to spread misinformation and destroy the mental health of young people.

I can see your argument but the majority of videos are mostly teen or 20 something year olds dancing, lip syncing or cooking

[lfromnj]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

[VBM]

China app bad

[Ferguson97]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

I feel like the simplest explanation here is that "liberal", "young", and "woman" are all groups that are more likely to prioritize mental health, so it seems like they're disproportionately suffering from mental health problems, when they're really not. They're just more likely to report it.

[DaleCooper]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety. 

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety. 

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

[Ferguson97]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety. 

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

DaleCooper, seeing all the progress society has made in destigmatizing mental illness: "THE LIBERALS HAVE GONE TOO FAR!!!!"

[DaleCooper]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety. 

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

[Ferguson97]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety. 

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

[DaleCooper]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

[Ferguson97]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

[DaleCooper]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

And the sheer amount of other changes going on in the world making it worse makes blaming it on people not being told to "just get over it" when suicidally depressed ridiculous.

[DaleCooper]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

I'm getting really tired of people like you presuming that you know anything about the individual experiences of anybody that you're talking to. I have had my fair share of problems during my time on this earth and I have my own way of dealing with them. Just because I reject this mental illness therapy blanket culture does not mean that I don't appreciate that there are people struggling out there.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

I'm getting really tired of people like you presuming that you know anything about the individual experiences of anybody that you're talking to. I have had my fair share of problems during my time on this earth and I have my own way of dealing with them. Just because I reject this mental illness therapy blanket culture does not mean that I don't appreciate that there are people struggling out there.

If you don't like others presuming about you, maybe you should extend the same courtesy to others instead of insisting that they're just weak babies who want to be victims. You do not understand the lives of the people you're dismissing.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

People pretend like opposing work camps is in childrens' best interests then this sh#t happens.

[DaleCooper]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

I'm getting really tired of people like you presuming that you know anything about the individual experiences of anybody that you're talking to. I have had my fair share of problems during my time on this earth and I have my own way of dealing with them. Just because I reject this mental illness therapy blanket culture does not mean that I don't appreciate that there are people struggling out there.

If you don't like others presuming about you, maybe you should extend the same courtesy to others instead of insisting that they're just weak babies who want to be victims. You do not understand the lives of the people you're dismissing.

I never said anybody was a weak baby, I said I believe that encouraging people to identify with conditions like anxiety or depression that ought to be temporary is a bad thing.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-are-young-liberals-so-depressed

Young women are more liberal so this might be a factor. Doesn't help that people's first exposure to politics is likely the issue of climate change where the kids are told the world is doomed in 5 years if we don't go back to the stone age.

The obsession with mental illness is definitely a bad thing for everybody, but especially young people. It's a perfect excuse for remaining miserable. It used to be, generally speaking, that if you were miserable you had to either do something about it or remain miserable. But if you're mentally ill, then what can you do? It liberates you from having any agency, plus it encourages people to identify with what should be temporary states of mind like depression or anxiety.  

Of course you'd be delusional about mental illness.

Identifying with mental illness is not a good thing.

Mental illness doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist. It's not like Tinkerbell.

No, but it's a lot easier to overcome when people don't incorporate it into their identities.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

I'm getting really tired of people like you presuming that you know anything about the individual experiences of anybody that you're talking to. I have had my fair share of problems during my time on this earth and I have my own way of dealing with them. Just because I reject this mental illness therapy blanket culture does not mean that I don't appreciate that there are people struggling out there.

If you don't like others presuming about you, maybe you should extend the same courtesy to others instead of insisting that they're just weak babies who want to be victims. You do not understand the lives of the people you're dismissing.

I never said anybody was a weak baby, I said I believe that encouraging people to identify with conditions like anxiety or depression that ought to be temporary is a bad thing.

You certainly said that mental illness is just "a perfect excuse for remaining miserable". Which, as someone who has actually seen a lot of mental illness in both myself and others, is ludicrous. Knowing that something is wrong and that you aren't just weak or a baby or whatever is helpful, and makes actually treating it much easier. I would be dysfunctional in school and life if I took your approach to my ADHD or anxiety. I would be dead if I did it for my more severe illnesses. You do not understand mental illness and the mental health system. At all. I doubt you've been in this system, frankly.

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

This is literally a self-own 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Have you ever said anything intelligent in your life?

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Holy crap when you scolded DaleCooper for not being mentally ill I was laughing for so long. Certain people in society are seriously trying to trick us to think mental illness is good.

Florida schools must be terrible at teaching reading comprehension.

[Ferguson97]

Well, there's the fact that society is by-and-large incredibly miserable, and this is especially true amongst the mental illness crowd, so I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the supposed destigmatization of identifying as mentally ill is at the very least not terribly helpful.

You have never dealt with mental illness and it shows.

This is literally a self-own

Have you ever said anything intelligent in your life?

Holy crap when you scolded DaleCooper for not being mentally ill I was laughing for so long. Certain people in society are seriously trying to trick us to think mental illnesses are good and something to be proud of, rather than something that needs to be treated!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

There is a difference between "nothing to be ashamed of" and "something to be proud of", and this is a very uncharitable interpretation of Scarlet's statements. We should encourage people to seek treatment for their mental illnesses without shaming them or treating it like suffering from mental illness is a moral or personal failure.

[Ferguson97]

I agree with you, but on the other hand I don't think it is productive for a healthy society to shame people who do not (or are not perceived) to have mental illnesses. The thing is the normalization of mental illnesses among certain circles of people has tipped onto the other extreme, allowed them to take their root others much stronger and it has gotten people who have them to fall into complacency, as they do not wish to fix or even attempt to improve their condition, and this makes a worse society for everyone.

If that was happening I would agree that it's bad, but I don't think that what you're describing is happening.