Why is "cultural Catholicism" so much weaker amongst German-Americans?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is a common reason cited to me about why this sort of identification is not common in Minnesota and North Dakota.

But if so why is that? What impacted German-Americans to result in this?

[RINO Tom]

First of all, a disproportionate percent of Germans who migrated to the US came from Lutheran areas from what little information I have seen, so there is going to obviously be less of a sentimental association between one’s German heritage and the historic effect it Catholicism on that culture.  Secondly, when compared to Irish or Italian Americans, German Americans effectively disowned their ethnic heritage with their tails between their legs after WWII, so they’re less likely to be “culturally ANYTHING” than those other groups.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Secondly, when compared to Irish or Italian Americans, German Americans effectively disowned their ethnic heritage with their tails between their legs after WWII, so they’re less likely to be “culturally ANYTHING” than those other groups.

Ding ding ding. There was an element of government policy in this too; while the Roosevelt administration was happy to let distinctive Italian-American and (after a certain point...) Japanese-American cultures continue to exist in weakened forms, it decided that distinctive German-American culture needed to be sent into a black hole. For that matter, the Wilson administration had decided that during World War I as well.

[jojoju1998]

Many German Americans are not Catholic.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Yeah German national identity isn't nearly as closely tied to Catholicism.

[King of Kensington]

Many German Americans are not Catholic.

Only about a quarter of German Americans are Catholic. 

[Sol]

Also, there are some very heavily Catholic German areas in other parts of the country (and some in Minnesota too iirc, I think this is true of Stearns County in Minnesota for a close to home reference.)

Of course, German ethnic identity isn't mixed up with Catholicism, and as referenced by others, most people don't have a strong German identity for WW2 related reasons. But I'd imagine a higher than average percentage of functionally irreligious people from western Stearns County or Dubuque identify as Catholic on account of coming from somewhere where that's a big part of the local culture.

[PSOL]

Weren’t most German immigrants from Bavaria, or at least a plurality

[RINO Tom]

Weren’t most German immigrants from Bavaria, or at least a plurality

Huh??  Would have to (re-)look for numbers, but definitely not.  Germany saw its highest emigration from agricultural areas of Prussia, IIRC. 

[PSOL]

Weren’t most German immigrants from Bavaria, or at least a plurality

Huh??  Would have to (re-)look for numbers, but definitely not.  Germany saw its highest emigration from agricultural areas of Prussia, IIRC. 

I feel as if there are a lot of Bavarians in the Chicagoland area. Do we have any data of what groups came here from what German states.

[RINO Tom]

Weren’t most German immigrants from Bavaria, or at least a plurality

Huh??  Would have to (re-)look for numbers, but definitely not.  Germany saw its highest emigration from agricultural areas of Prussia, IIRC. 

I feel as if there are a lot of Bavarians in the Chicagoland area. Do we have any data of what groups came here from what German states.

I’ll look tomorrow for some sources, but according to Wikipedia, German Americans are about twice as Protestant as they are Catholic, so that would indicate more from Northern Germany.  I’m sure it depended on the area, but both areas where I grew up (Peoria, IL and Iowa City, IA) seemed to have had German Americans who were almost exclusively Lutheran, including my family. 🤷🏼‍♂️  I have only been in Chicago three years, so I’m not as sure on the breakdown.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also, there are some very heavily Catholic German areas in other parts of the country (and some in Minnesota too iirc, I think this is true of Stearns County in Minnesota for a close to home reference.)

Of course, German ethnic identity isn't mixed up with Catholicism, and as referenced by others, most people don't have a strong German identity for WW2 related reasons. But I'd imagine a higher than average percentage of functionally irreligious people from western Stearns County or Dubuque identify as Catholic on account of coming from somewhere where that's a big part of the local culture.

Burleigh County,  ND is very heavily German and it's (based on anecdotal evidence only granted but there's not really much else evidence you can get) an incredibly religiously fluid area. And the concept of identifying with a religion or church you aren't in any way practicing is a completely foreign concept to anyone from there under 50.

[Sol]

Also, there are some very heavily Catholic German areas in other parts of the country (and some in Minnesota too iirc, I think this is true of Stearns County in Minnesota for a close to home reference.)

Of course, German ethnic identity isn't mixed up with Catholicism, and as referenced by others, most people don't have a strong German identity for WW2 related reasons. But I'd imagine a higher than average percentage of functionally irreligious people from western Stearns County or Dubuque identify as Catholic on account of coming from somewhere where that's a big part of the local culture.

Burleigh County,  ND is very heavily German and it's (based on anecdotal evidence only granted but there's not really much else evidence you can get) an incredibly religiously fluid area. And the concept of identifying with a religion or church you aren't in any way practicing is a completely foreign concept to anyone from there under 50.

Bismarck is a sizable city and is fairly religiously diverse within Christianity; it's not really comparable to an insular community where nearly everyone has a similar religion and background.

[satsuma]

Also, there are some very heavily Catholic German areas in other parts of the country (and some in Minnesota too iirc, I think this is true of Stearns County in Minnesota for a close to home reference.)

Of course, German ethnic identity isn't mixed up with Catholicism, and as referenced by others, most people don't have a strong German identity for WW2 related reasons. But I'd imagine a higher than average percentage of functionally irreligious people from western Stearns County or Dubuque identify as Catholic on account of coming from somewhere where that's a big part of the local culture.

Burleigh County,  ND is very heavily German and it's (based on anecdotal evidence only granted but there's not really much else evidence you can get) an incredibly religiously fluid area. And the concept of identifying with a religion or church you aren't in any way practicing is a completely foreign concept to anyone from there under 50.

Bismarck is a sizable city and is fairly religiously diverse within Christianity; it's not really comparable to an insular community where nearly everyone has a similar religion and background.

That's interesting that Dubuque is predominantly Catholic, while also being just behind Bismarck as the 2nd-most German-American city above 50k, at least according to a poorly-cited list on Wikipedia. Not that Catholics are a rare breed in Bismarck, but many of the immigrants to the Dakotas came from the "Volga German" community in Russia rather than Germany itself. It would suggest that the regional blend of various places' German immigrants has some effects on their religious blend today.

Many Catholic parishes here are predominantly Cajun so that kinda colors my view here, but "culturally X" always seemed a bit foreign to me too. Cajuns seem to think of their cultural distinctiveness as mostly food-related, which they would not lose by becoming Protestant/non-religious/other, while there is not much of a Protestant identity outside of actual belief or practice. Evangelical Protestantism tends to rail agianst becoming ethno-religion by stressing the Gospel's universality, and "catholic" literally means "universal."

[RINO Tom]

^ I think “culturally ____” doesn’t make much sense, either … it almost always describes a person who CHOOSES to identify with a religion, and random other people think his/her “religiosity” is, like, insufficient?  Lol, pretty weird when you think about it.

I have very unorthodox spiritual views, and I haven’t been to church in years … but I identify myself as Lutheran, and that really should be the end of that.

[RINO Tom]

^ On this note, I think many Americans take too many cues from Europe on this subject.  I was researching religion in Germany (2019 data, numbers rounded for simplicity's sake) last night, and I found the statistics interesting:

53% Christian
--> 27% Catholic
--> 26% Protestant (95%+ of which is Lutheran)
--> Less than 1% Other Christian

42% "Unaffiliated" (27% Atheist)

6.5% Muslim
1.8% Other Religions

Now, I understand the united Protestant churches and the Roman Catholic church have special non-profit standing and a cultural "anchor" in Germany that is VERY foreign to Americans, so I get it's not apples-to-apples (I also understand that our German and European posters would understand this infinitely more than I do).  However, if you were to post these numbers on, say, Reddit or an Instagram account about demographics, the comments sections would be flooded with neckbeards absolutely desperate to tell you that all those Christians are actually Atheists.  Even ignoring my annoyance at militant Atheists' habit of squeezing Agnosticism out of existence in their attempt to swell the numbers of their ranks, I just find this so bizarre ... it's almost patronizing. 

Like, at the end of the day, most people are smart enough to at least know how they CHOOSE to identify.  The same data says about 70% of Germans state they believe in some kind of God or higher power ... if some of those folks literally never go to church, hardly ever think about Scripture, live a secular life, etc., and yet they believe in some type of Creator/First Cause and choose to identify as Lutherans or Catholics, guess what?  THEY'RE LUTHERANS OR CATHOLICS, lol.  This gatekeeping of who is a "real Christian" is one of the most infuriatingly lame things of our modern online discourse to me.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It hasn't escaped my notice that so-called new atheists, tiresome hyper-online traditionalists, and BRTD all have approximately the same opinion of "I don't get too worked up about abortion, I went to a gay wedding just last Saturday, I think Benedict XVI looks like Emperor Palpatine, and I only go to Mass on Christmas Eve and Ash Wednesday, but I apologize for everything, mainline fish fry throughout the month of March, have an Our Lady of Guadalupe embroidered wallet that I got from my Mexican mother-in-law, and am always asking St. Christopher for help with my road rage" Catholics.

[afleitch]

They're the best ones too...

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

They're the best ones too...

Often more orthodox than more observant Catholics, even, on areas of moral theology not directly related to the contents of the pelvic cavity.