Marxist ex-ruler of Ethiopia found guilty of genocide

[WMS]

Has anyone else noticed that 2006 has not been very nice to evil dictators? Saddam is sentenced to hang, Pinochet is roasting in hell, as is Turkmenbashi, and this Ethiopian dictator. Oh, and Fidel has been sick for months, and even krazy Kim is feeling so ronery he feels like firing a nuke.

Mengistu is, unfortunately, still alive. Maybe 2007 will be different.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mugabe doesn't really fit onto a conventional left/right model (at least not one based around an assumption of democratic and non-authoritarian politics) and it's a mistake to try to fit him onto one (it's also a mistake to read much into his/ZANU-PF's rhetoric, whether past or current).

Fundamentally he's a Shona Nationalist (of an especially ugly stripe o/c) and, ideologically, that's more-or-less all that matters. In terms of western ideologies, he's more a proper Fascist than anything else (something else that doesn't fit easily onto the previously mentioned model).

[minionofmidas]

Mugabe doesn't really fit onto a conventional left/right model (at least not one based around an assumption of democratic and non-authoritarian politics) and it's a mistake to try to fit him onto one (it's also a mistake to read much into his/ZANU-PF's rhetoric, whether past or current).

Fundamentally he's a Shona Nationalist (of an especially ugly stripe o/c) and, ideologically, that's more-or-less all that matters. In terms of western ideologies, he's more a proper Fascist than anything else (something else that doesn't fit easily onto the previously mentioned model).

I'd pretty much say the same about virtually everybody mentioned in this thread so far... including the later Karl Marx.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'd pretty much say the same about virtually everybody mentioned in this thread so far... including the later Karl Marx.

Everyone mentioned in this thread is a Shona Nationalist?

[minionofmidas]

I'd pretty much say the same about virtually everybody mentioned in this thread so far... including the later Karl Marx.

Everyone mentioned in this thread is a Shona Nationalist?

Everyone mentioned in this thread is a [add personal ethnicity/class/community here] Nationalist.

[WMS]

Mugabe doesn't really fit onto a conventional left/right model (at least not one based around an assumption of democratic and non-authoritarian politics) and it's a mistake to try to fit him onto one (it's also a mistake to read much into his/ZANU-PF's rhetoric, whether past or current).

Fundamentally he's a Shona Nationalist (of an especially ugly stripe o/c) and, ideologically, that's more-or-less all that matters. In terms of western ideologies, he's more a proper Fascist than anything else (something else that doesn't fit easily onto the previously mentioned model).

Hmm...that's certainly true since 2000...somewhat true since 1990 (although the land redistribution system is classically Leftist, on the one hand, but on the other hand there have been fairer land redistributions done by Rightist Latin American governments so...)...not so sure about the 1980s.

I'd pretty much say the same about virtually everybody mentioned in this thread so far... including the later Karl Marx.

Everyone mentioned in this thread is a Shona Nationalist?

Everyone mentioned in this thread is a [add personal ethnicity/class/community here] Nationalist.

You say that as if nationalism is inherently a bad thing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

(although the land redistribution system is classically Leftist, on the one hand, but on the other hand there have been fairer land redistributions done by Rightist Latin American governments so...)

Land redistribution is not always a left-wing thing to do; what matters is the reasons for it and who benefits from it. In the case of Zimbabwe the (real) reason for it was mainly Shona nationalism, but you also had the ending (much to the irritation of Mugabe) of a certain cosy/corrupt deal with Britain.
That the people who benefited were largely Mugabe's cronies and that the people who suffered the most where the rural (and black o/c) working class (ie; the very people who the land should have been given to... the case for radical land reform in Zimbabwe was o/c overwhelming by this point, especially as it was the racist carve-up of agricultural land in the early 20th century that sowed the seeds for all the horrors that came in later decades) is probably not something that needs pointing out.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Even in the '80's Mugabe was, fundamentally, a Shona nationalist and his policies, usually, reflected that. They also reflected the international conditions of the time o/c.

[Gustaf]

Being left-winged tend to be about handing over power from the individual to the state.

Yet it's left wingers opposing the Patriot Act.

That is because they don't like that particular intrusion of privacy. But leftists generally have no problem with trying to tell people how to live their lives. It is not based on principle. Many left-wingers just dislike toughness on criminals, terrorists, enemy states, etc and therefore dislike harsh measures against them.

[WMS]

(although the land redistribution system is classically Leftist, on the one hand, but on the other hand there have been fairer land redistributions done by Rightist Latin American governments so...)

Land redistribution is not always a left-wing thing to do; what matters is the reasons for it and who benefits from it. In the case of Zimbabwe the (real) reason for it was mainly Shona nationalism, but you also had the ending (much to the irritation of Mugabe) of a certain cosy/corrupt deal with Britain.
That the people who benefited were largely Mugabe's cronies and that the people who suffered the most where the rural (and black o/c) working class (ie; the very people who the land should have been given to... the case for radical land reform in Zimbabwe was o/c overwhelming by this point, especially as it was the racist carve-up of agricultural land in the early 20th century that sowed the seeds for all the horrors that came in later decades) is probably not something that needs pointing out.

Fine, fine, good points Al. Is it fair to say that Mugabe often used Leftist rhetoric to deflect criticism of what he and his cronies were really doing?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Even in the '80's Mugabe was, fundamentally, a Shona nationalist and his policies, usually, reflected that. They also reflected the international conditions of the time o/c.
[/quote]

Ah, fair enough. Remember the Ndebele!