Do you think a libertarian candidate could win a Senate seat under the Republican label in Vermont?

[TheReckoning]

Joe Manchin, who’s culturally conservative, yet fiscally left-leaning, can win Senate elections in West Virginia. Could a culturally liberal, yet fiscal conservative, win a senate election in a state like Vermont, Massachusetts, or California? Or is the average Democratic voter filled with so much hatred towards Republicans that this would be impossible?

[Person Man]

They have no problems with Governors. 3 out of 6 New England states have Republican governors. One is pretty conservative. Kansas has a Democratic governor.

[Hammy]

I could honestly see this happening in New Hampshire.

[Alcibiades]

Why would Vermont elect a libertarian under any party label, lol?

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

I could honestly see this happening in New Hampshire.

SENATOR DW PERRY

[If my soul was made of stone]

Joe Manchin managed to buck trends in West Virginia largely due to goodwill from his days as governor in a more depolarized time and his luck in facing weak opponents. A Phil Scott type could win in this scenario with a solid reputation in state government and promises to keep the national GOP at arm's length, but it would be much harder in that more nationalized context. Typical American right-libertarianism doesn't have much of a base in Vermont, unlike its neighbor to the east, and even in the Granite State it could be an uphill battle if that candidate struggled to balance their libertarian credentials with the more typical party base.

[Figueira]

No, the time of libertarianism being vaguely trendy among liberals has passed.

[Badger]

A moderate or liberal Republican can win Vermont under the right circumstances. An ideologue would struggle to break 40%.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vermont is not a "libertarian state" though libertarians like to thing it is.

It's people have some socially libertarian views sure, but they also have a number of populist-progressive views on economic matters that would never square with a "libertarian" economic model. The state has a long protectionist history, it is anti big business in preference for small locally owned operations, and I would hazard a guess support for national healthcare is off the charts in the state.

[Хahar 🤔]

Joe Manchin, who’s culturally conservative, yet fiscally left-leaning

This is not really true in any meaningful sense. The Mikado recently made the point that because right-wing Democrats were largely wiped out in 2010, it's easy to forget what they were and to idealize them as some sort of principled ideologues of the upper left-hand side of the Political Matrix. They were not that; they were just right-wing Democrats.

[Person Man]

Joe Manchin managed to buck trends in West Virginia largely due to goodwill from his days as governor in a more depolarized time and his luck in facing weak opponents. A Phil Scott type could win in this scenario with a solid reputation in state government and promises to keep the national GOP at arm's length, but it would be much harder in that more nationalized context. Typical American right-libertarianism doesn't have much of a base in Vermont, unlike its neighbor to the east, and even in the Granite State it could be an uphill battle if that candidate struggled to balance their libertarian credentials with the more typical party base.

Isn’t that Sununu?

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

What about Vermont makes you think they would like a "libertarian" ?

[Person Man]

No, the time of libertarianism being vaguely trendy among liberals has passed.

That was roughly between the Iraq War/Domestic Surveillance and February of 2009. That was kind of interesting about Trump. He never really generated a left-libertarian backlash like Bush did.

[TheReckoning]

Joe Manchin, who’s culturally conservative, yet fiscally left-leaning

This is not really true in any meaningful sense. The Mikado recently made the point that because right-wing Democrats were largely wiped out in 2010, it's easy to forget what they were and to idealize them as some sort of principled ideologues of the upper left-hand side of the Political Matrix. They were not that; they were just right-wing Democrats.

I’m confused, your argument is that Joe Manchin is right-wing on both fronts?

[Хahar 🤔]

Joe Manchin, who’s culturally conservative, yet fiscally left-leaning

This is not really true in any meaningful sense. The Mikado recently made the point that because right-wing Democrats were largely wiped out in 2010, it's easy to forget what they were and to idealize them as some sort of principled ideologues of the upper left-hand side of the Political Matrix. They were not that; they were just right-wing Democrats.

I’m confused, your argument is that Joe Manchin is right-wing on both fronts?

I'm saying that he's right-wing on both fronts relative to other Democrats. You can't draw some neat line and say that he's right-wing on social issues but left-wing on economic issues (or, rather, you can but the issues on which he's chosen to take a stand as breaking from the Democratic caucus don't reflect any such distinction between economic issues and social issues).

[Person Man]

Joe Manchin, who’s culturally conservative, yet fiscally left-leaning

This is not really true in any meaningful sense. The Mikado recently made the point that because right-wing Democrats were largely wiped out in 2010, it's easy to forget what they were and to idealize them as some sort of principled ideologues of the upper left-hand side of the Political Matrix. They were not that; they were just right-wing Democrats.

I’m confused, your argument is that Joe Manchin is right-wing on both fronts?

I'm saying that he's right-wing on both fronts relative to other Democrats. You can't draw some neat line and say that he's right-wing on social issues but left-wing on economic issues (or, rather, you can but the issues on which he's chosen to take a stand as breaking from the Democratic caucus don't reflect any such distinction between economic issues and social issues).

There generally aren’t as many major pols willing to be concretely totally onboard with property and class issues but enthusiastically willing to throw the other team a major bone or cave completely on race relations or church state relations....or vice versa. I guess Sinema would be what you would consider a “libertarian Democrat”, and Casey until 2012 or 2018 could be considered your typical liberal traditionalist. Nowadays, you just don’t have that many pro-life Democrats getting elected that also want to expand the medical or retirement safety or even control inflation with more progressive taxes. It’s generally someone like Manchin who is generally motivated to resist big changes in either direction than motivated by a brand, idiom, or philosophy.