Pinochet has heart attack

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Former Dictator not quite dead yet

It would be a shame if he died before he's convicted of anything.

[??????????]

Former "Dictator" not quite dead yet

It would be a shame if he died.

I agree. It certainly would be a very terrible loss indeed.

[dazzleman]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

[Joe Republic]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

Are you making excuses for Pinochet's domestic policies?

[dazzleman]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

Are you making excuses for Pinochet's domestic policies?

No, I'm just saying that there's a double standard.  Anti-western and anti-American dictators with worse policies have escaped the scrutiny of the left, while he has been singled out.

All other things being equal, I am going to favor the person who is not inimical to the interests of the west.  I find it interesting that others take just the opposite approach.

There have been plenty of evil governments in the world; most are in fact probably evil.  I just wonder why this one many, who's been out of power for years, can still command such vociferous hatred from some people who could never muster up that type of hatred for those who seek to do far more damage to us than Pinochet ever could.

[Joe Republic]

I agree with you.  I just want to make it clear that the same double standard exists on the right too.  Conservatives will often leap to the defense of pro-western dictators with brutal domestic policies (see States Rights above).

That's a sweeping generalization of course, but that seems to be the order of the day when debating you.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

I don't understand lack of hostility some have towards Pinochet. I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who make excuses for him, would be the most hostile towards him.
Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the right.

[??????????]

I agree with you.  I just want to make it clear that the same double standard exists on the right too.  Conservatives will often leap to the defense of pro-western dictators with brutal domestic policies (see States Rights above).

That's a sweeping generalization of course, but that seems to be the order of the day when debating you.

I defended him because I agree with him. Of course most any individual is going to defend the person they agree with in the same political spectrum as themselves.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

Are you making excuses for Pinochet's domestic policies?

No, I'm just saying that there's a double standard.  Anti-western and anti-American dictators with worse policies have escaped the scrutiny of the left, while he has been singled out.

I doubt many leftists were saying nice things about Pol Pot after he died.

Do you at least admit Pinochet is an evil person who deserves to be tried? Pretty sad you have a more favorable opinion of Pinochet than Hillary Clinton.

[Joe Republic]

I agree with you.  I just want to make it clear that the same double standard exists on the right too.  Conservatives will often leap to the defense of pro-western dictators with brutal domestic policies (see States Rights above).

That's a sweeping generalization of course, but that seems to be the order of the day when debating you.

I defended him because I agree with him. Of course most any individual is going to defend the person they agree with in the same political spectrum as themselves.

Well duh.  I doubt leftists support leftist dictators because they only like their hairstyle.

The point is that a double standard exists on both sides of the spectrum, where people will tend to support dictators on the same side as them, ignoring or defending any brutal domestic policies, and then decry any dictators on the opposite side to them, using any brutal domestic policies as evidence.  The hypocrisy that Dazzleman cited among leftists is clear for all to see on the right as well.

[dazzleman]

I agree with you.  I just want to make it clear that the same double standard exists on the right too.  Conservatives will often leap to the defense of pro-western dictators with brutal domestic policies (see States Rights above).

That's a sweeping generalization of course, but that seems to be the order of the day when debating you.

True, conservatives often defend the bad behavior of right-wing dictators, but there's at least a practical justification for defending bad behavior of those who are your friends rather than your enemies, though it can often turn out to be short-sighted.

I will certainly admit that I'm more forgiving of things done by governments friendly to the US and the west in general than those that are not, so that 'sweeping' generalization is true, at least in my case.

Most sweeping generalizations have a certain amount of truth to them, which is why I use them.  I don't suppose these things are true in 100% of the cases, but if they're true in 75-80% of the cases, that close enough for me, honestly.  I don't think we should have to prove that there are no small exceptions to every statement before we make them.

I think sometimes that those who are overly critical of generalizations simply don't want to own up to certain unpalatable facts.  Not saying that's true of you, but for some others, they simply don't want to acknowledge that certain things are true MOST or MUCH of the time, because that would put some of their own beliefs in a bad light, so they deflect it by trying to make the issue more complex than it in fact is.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Like I said, it's pretty sad when you consider Pinochet preferable to Hillary Clinton (and I don't even like Hillary Clinton).

[Bono]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

Are you making excuses for Pinochet's domestic policies?

No, I'm just saying that there's a double standard.  Anti-western and anti-American dictators with worse policies have escaped the scrutiny of the left, while he has been singled out.

I doubt many leftists were saying nice things about Pol Pot after he died.

Yea, it was just Noam Chomsky.

[Colin]

I don't understand the hostility some have toward Pinochet.  I guarantee, had he been hostile to the west, and had the same exact domestic policies, the people who are most hostile to him would be making excuses for him.  Such is the ugly hypocrisy of the left.

Are you making excuses for Pinochet's domestic policies?

No, I'm just saying that there's a double standard.  Anti-western and anti-American dictators with worse policies have escaped the scrutiny of the left, while he has been singled out.

I doubt many leftists were saying nice things about Pol Pot after he died.

Well it's pretty hard to defend a person who kills 1/7th of his countries population. 2 million people, using some horrifying mathematics, is much more bloody than the 10,000 killed by Pinochet. That doesn't absolve Pinochet in any way. While I think some of his economic policies were spot on and helped Chile become the thriving Latin American country and that he didn't fight against the tide of democracy when it came to a head there is still no excuse for his dictatorship, his overthrow of a democratically elected government, and his policies that curbed freedom and liberty for the people.  

I also think its a travesty to Chilean democracy that they never did bring him to trial and let him off on petty excuses like he was too infirm to stand trial or that he had some sort of immunity.

It seems like you just can't kill Pinochet. The man's like 90 years old and has a heart attack and doesn't die, what are the odds of that?

[Democratic Hawk]

Well, Pinochet backed Britain against Argentina during the Falklands War, hence that enduring 'love affair' between he and Thatcher, which I deem his one saving grace (and I ain't referring to the 'love affair' ) but, all things considered, I'd shed no tears at his passing; indeed, for him to escape justice would be unjust

Dave

[Platypus]

Good riddance to evil scum.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I love how dazzleman kept ignoring my questions.

Just say it, do you think he should be tried or not?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Can't say I'm losing sleep.

Any chance that Kissinger will finally brought to justice about this?





Of course not. He's a former American sectarary of State. So chances of him being brought for justice for some of the worst crimes in the second half of 20th century are miniscule.

[Gabu]

I think sometimes that those who are overly critical of generalizations simply don't want to own up to certain unpalatable facts.  Not saying that's true of you, but for some others, they simply don't want to acknowledge that certain things are true MOST or MUCH of the time, because that would put some of their own beliefs in a bad light, so they deflect it by trying to make the issue more complex than it in fact is.

In that case, all Republicans are self-serving xenophobic Christians who are incapable of seeing more than a year into the future and who prop up brutal dictators as long as they're friendly to the United States.

Oh, what, that's not true of you?  Well, you're just in denial because you don't want to own up to certain unpalatable facts...

[Colin]

I think sometimes that those who are overly critical of generalizations simply don't want to own up to certain unpalatable facts.  Not saying that's true of you, but for some others, they simply don't want to acknowledge that certain things are true MOST or MUCH of the time, because that would put some of their own beliefs in a bad light, so they deflect it by trying to make the issue more complex than it in fact is.

In that case, all Republicans are self-serving xenophobic Christians

I thought that was all of America?

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Aren't most people? Unless Canadians now have prophetic powers.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well that was the position of US foreign policy for 50 years, its called realism or realpolitik. It's been the basic foreign policy of most nations since the concept was devised by the Prussians.

[Gabu]

I think sometimes that those who are overly critical of generalizations simply don't want to own up to certain unpalatable facts.  Not saying that's true of you, but for some others, they simply don't want to acknowledge that certain things are true MOST or MUCH of the time, because that would put some of their own beliefs in a bad light, so they deflect it by trying to make the issue more complex than it in fact is.

In that case, all Republicans are self-serving xenophobic Christians

I thought that was all of America?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Aren't most people? Unless Canadians now have prophetic powers.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well that was the position of US foreign policy for 50 years, its called realism or realpolitik. It's been the basic foreign policy of most nations since the concept was devised by the Prussians.

I was not intending my comment to be a serious expression of an opinion, but rather more an example of a ridiculous generalization backed up by the statement that those who disagree are just in denial.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So dazzleman, what do you think of the following Freepers? Do you understand the hostility they toward Pinochet?

To: NormsRevenge

Good. Die already.

2 posted on 12/03/2006 1:30:10 PM PST by Wormwood (Enjoy this post while it lasts!)
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To: NormsRevenge

Pinochet and Castro having a meet and greet in hell.

5 posted on 12/03/2006 1:30:46 PM PST by OldFriend (FALLEN HERO JEFFREY TOCZYLOWSKI, REST IN PEACE)
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To: Wormwood

Both devils. Enjoy da BBQ.

13 posted on 12/03/2006 1:37:56 PM PST by timsbella (Mark Steyn for Prime Minister of Canada! (Steve's won my vote in the meantime))
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To: whitedog57
Uhm ... he was OUR Ally.

To OUR eternal shame.
14 posted on 12/03/2006 1:38:30 PM PST by Wormwood (Enjoy this post while it lasts!)
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To: NormsRevenge

I'm ashamed we supported this thug. Good riddance.

16 posted on 12/03/2006 1:45:03 PM PST by WestVirginiaRebel (Common sense will do to liberalism what the atomic bomb did to Nagasaki-Rush Limbaugh)
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http:/www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1747903/posts

Gee, maybe there actually are people who hate all dictators and those who violate human rights, regardless of political leanings. What a concept! Now why don't you join the league of people with decency that I'll admit I even share with some Freepers it appears?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

 Viva Pinochet
 
Viva la muerta

[WMS]

I agree with you.  I just want to make it clear that the same double standard exists on the right too.  Conservatives will often leap to the defense of pro-western dictators with brutal domestic policies (see States Rights above).

That's a sweeping generalization of course, but that seems to be the order of the day when debating you.

I defended him because I agree with him. Of course most any individual is going to defend the person they agree with in the same political spectrum as themselves.

Well duh.  I doubt leftists support leftist dictators because they only like their hairstyle.

The point is that a double standard exists on both sides of the spectrum, where people will tend to support dictators on the same side as them, ignoring or defending any brutal domestic policies, and then decry any dictators on the opposite side to them, using any brutal domestic policies as evidence.  The hypocrisy that Dazzleman cited among leftists is clear for all to see on the right as well.

Bingo.

When Castro finally dies, I am going to be watching the reactions of the lefties closely...just as I will be watching the reactions of the righties closely when Pinochet dies. I expect massive hypocrisy...especially if I'm lucky enough to see them both die on the same day. I of course will be cheering both of them to their graves.