How should Biden/Kamala deflect attacks coming at them from the left?

[WD]

To all the people saying "ignore it", that strategy seemed to work really well four years ago huh? That's when twenty percent of Sanders voters voted for someone other than Hillary in the general

For a crowd who seems to be especially concerned with "the stakes" of this election, you are doing nothing to even throw a bone to the left. At this point, why should you expect their support, if you've done nothing to earn it

Sure. You know, I bet all of those ancestral Democrats in Oklahoma and West Virginia who voted for Sanders in the primary because he was the only alternative to Hillary totally would have voted for him over Trump in the general.

Cherrypicking. 8% of Sanders voters voted for someone other than Trump or Clinton in the general (most of them Stein, I'm assuming). Plus, how many more just stayed home?

Appealing to the left at the expense of the moderates is not a strategy that will net the Democratic Party any votes. And Joe Biden is far more representative of the median Democrat than AOC or Sanders.

I have a bunch of policies that I'd love the Democratic Party to pass that I know are political non-starters, so I don't push for them. I suck it up and vote.

No one's saying he has to do it at the expense of moderates. I'm saying he hasn't appealed to the left at all, as though they don't even exist within the Democratic party. You don't think that will net any votes? Is 8% not a significant enough number? Or even just 1%? In close states, that could make a huge difference in terms of "tipping point"

If you consistently ignore your a huge base of your party, don't be surprised when they jump ship, or never get on board in the first place. "Sucking up and voting" works well for the partisans, not so much for anyone else who puts their principles first and foremost. Biden hasn't given anything the left to be hopeful for. No left-leaning policies, no left-leaning members in the administration, no left-leaning VP. So why should we vote for him again, other than "Trump bad"?

The idea that no concessions have been made the left just isn’t true. Biden has made multiple concessions: Biden wants to lower the Medicare age to 60, students loan forgiveness for middle and lower class people, not to mention that he made a Unity task force that included people like AOC and Jayapal. The task force agreed to concessions on climate change were made like eliminating carbon pollution from power plants and achieving net-zero greenhouse gas emissions for new buildings, and eliminating carbon pollution from power plants by 2035. The task force also agreed on a postal banking system, ending private prisons, and a ban on charter schools.

In the end Biden won, he didn’t have to give any concessions but he did, and yet progressives still aren’t happy. You should consider yourselves lucky that you got anything at all.

[Big Abraham]

To all the people saying "ignore it", that strategy seemed to work really well four years ago huh? That's when twenty percent of Sanders voters voted for someone other than Hillary in the general

For a crowd who seems to be especially concerned with "the stakes" of this election, you are doing nothing to even throw a bone to the left. At this point, why should you expect their support, if you've done nothing to earn it

Sure. You know, I bet all of those ancestral Democrats in Oklahoma and West Virginia who voted for Sanders in the primary because he was the only alternative to Hillary totally would have voted for him over Trump in the general.

Cherrypicking. 8% of Sanders voters voted for someone other than Trump or Clinton in the general (most of them Stein, I'm assuming). Plus, how many more just stayed home?

Appealing to the left at the expense of the moderates is not a strategy that will net the Democratic Party any votes. And Joe Biden is far more representative of the median Democrat than AOC or Sanders.

I have a bunch of policies that I'd love the Democratic Party to pass that I know are political non-starters, so I don't push for them. I suck it up and vote.

No one's saying he has to do it at the expense of moderates. I'm saying he hasn't appealed to the left at all, as though they don't even exist within the Democratic party. You don't think that will net any votes? Is 8% not a significant enough number? Or even just 1%? In close states, that could make a huge difference in terms of "tipping point"

If you consistently ignore your a huge base of your party, don't be surprised when they jump ship, or never get on board in the first place. "Sucking up and voting" works well for the partisans, not so much for anyone else who puts their principles first and foremost. Biden hasn't given anything the left to be hopeful for. No left-leaning policies, no left-leaning members in the administration, no left-leaning VP. So why should we vote for him again, other than "Trump bad"?

The idea that no concessions have been made the left just isn’t true. Biden has made multiple concessions: Biden wants to lower the Medicare age to 60, students loan forgiveness for middle and lower class people, not to mention that he made a Unity task force that included people like AOC and Jayapal. The task force agreed to concessions on climate change were made like eliminating carbon pollution from power plants and achieving net-zero greenhouse gas emissions for new buildings, and eliminating carbon pollution from power plants by 2035. The task force also agreed on a postal banking system, ending private prisons, and a ban on charter schools.

In the end Biden won, he didn’t have to give any concessions but he did, and yet progressives still aren’t happy. You should consider yourselves lucky that you got anything at all.

Lowering the Medicare age to 60 isn't a progressive/left-wing policy; it's the barest form of reformism. Biden has actually said he would veto a Medicare for All policy if it came to his desk, how is that in any way making concessions, when over 80% of Democrats support that policy, including even many moderate/conservative Dems at this point? He also doesn't support loan forgiveness for middle to lower class people; according to his stated policy positions (which are inferior to looking at his senatorial record when determining how he will govern), he supports no accruing of interest for individuals making under $25k a year; everyone else pays 5% of their discretionary income. You want to talk about climate change? Biden's key advisors indicate he is unlikely to implement a carbon tax, and has famously flip-flopped on fossil fuel subsidies and fracking. All of the climate policies you listed (which I doubt he will fully implement all of them) are Moderate Hero™ policies, not progressive/leftist policies on climate change in any way, which is a problem especially on this issue, given the cataclysmic nature of it; we should have already cut all emissions to zero or near-zero, but you're saying he's just going to cut carbon from nuclear plants in 15 years? Way too little, way too late. So no, those aren't "concessions" to the left in any way. They're barely centrist concessions.

Regarding private prisons, he already stated his policy will build off the policies already implemented by the Obama administration in that respect (which didn't end them). Biden never said he wanted to abolish charter schools; that is a Trump lie. Instead, he said he opposes funding going to "for-profit charter schools", but schools managed by for-profit companies make up only a fraction of all charter schools. So, no progressive policy here either. Got anything else you'd like to try?

I think you see my point. His "concessions" are all standard moderate policies that no actual left-wing person would support. Are his stated policy positions slightly to the left than the policies he ran on in, say, 2008? Sure. But, (and this is assuming he has genuinely converted on these issues; given all his flip-flops and his pithy senate record that's a stretch), they hardly count as adopting "left-wing" ideas, at all, and you have the audacity to say that "we should consider ourselves lucky"? Ok. Have fun in November. If he wins, it will be in spite of (and not because of) progressive voters

[WD]

To all the people saying "ignore it", that strategy seemed to work really well four years ago huh? That's when twenty percent of Sanders voters voted for someone other than Hillary in the general

For a crowd who seems to be especially concerned with "the stakes" of this election, you are doing nothing to even throw a bone to the left. At this point, why should you expect their support, if you've done nothing to earn it

Sure. You know, I bet all of those ancestral Democrats in Oklahoma and West Virginia who voted for Sanders in the primary because he was the only alternative to Hillary totally would have voted for him over Trump in the general.

Cherrypicking. 8% of Sanders voters voted for someone other than Trump or Clinton in the general (most of them Stein, I'm assuming). Plus, how many more just stayed home?

Appealing to the left at the expense of the moderates is not a strategy that will net the Democratic Party any votes. And Joe Biden is far more representative of the median Democrat than AOC or Sanders.

I have a bunch of policies that I'd love the Democratic Party to pass that I know are political non-starters, so I don't push for them. I suck it up and vote.

No one's saying he has to do it at the expense of moderates. I'm saying he hasn't appealed to the left at all, as though they don't even exist within the Democratic party. You don't think that will net any votes? Is 8% not a significant enough number? Or even just 1%? In close states, that could make a huge difference in terms of "tipping point"

If you consistently ignore your a huge base of your party, don't be surprised when they jump ship, or never get on board in the first place. "Sucking up and voting" works well for the partisans, not so much for anyone else who puts their principles first and foremost. Biden hasn't given anything the left to be hopeful for. No left-leaning policies, no left-leaning members in the administration, no left-leaning VP. So why should we vote for him again, other than "Trump bad"?

The idea that no concessions have been made the left just isn’t true. Biden has made multiple concessions: Biden wants to lower the Medicare age to 60, students loan forgiveness for middle and lower class people, not to mention that he made a Unity task force that included people like AOC and Jayapal. The task force agreed to concessions on climate change were made like eliminating carbon pollution from power plants and achieving net-zero greenhouse gas emissions for new buildings, and eliminating carbon pollution from power plants by 2035. The task force also agreed on a postal banking system, ending private prisons, and a ban on charter schools.

In the end Biden won, he didn’t have to give any concessions but he did, and yet progressives still aren’t happy. You should consider yourselves lucky that you got anything at all.

Lowering the Medicare age to 60 isn't a progressive/left-wing policy; it's the barest form of reformism. Biden has actually said he would veto a Medicare for All policy if it came to his desk, how is that in any way making concessions, when over 80% of Democrats support that policy, including even many moderate/conservative Dems at this point? He also doesn't support loan forgiveness for middle to lower class people; according to his stated policy positions (which are inferior to looking at his senatorial record when determining how he will govern), he supports no accruing of interest for individuals making under $25k a year; everyone else pays 5% of their discretionary income. You want to talk about climate change? Biden's key advisors indicate he is unlikely to implement a carbon tax, and has famously flip-flopped on fossil fuel subsidies and fracking. All of the climate policies you listed (which I doubt he will fully implement all of them) are Moderate Hero™ policies, not progressive/leftist policies on climate change in any way, which is a problem especially on this issue, given the cataclysmic nature of it; we should have already cut all emissions to zero or near-zero, but you're saying he's just going to cut carbon from nuclear plants in 15 years? Way too little, way too late. So no, those aren't "concessions" to the left in any way. They're barely centrist concessions.

Regarding private prisons, he already stated his policy will build off the policies already implemented by the Obama administration in that respect (which didn't end them). Biden never said he wanted to abolish charter schools; that is a Trump lie. Instead, he said he opposes funding going to "for-profit charter schools", but schools managed by for-profit companies make up only a fraction of all charter schools. So, no progressive policy here either. Got anything else you'd like to try?

I think you see my point. His "concessions" are all standard moderate policies that no actual left-wing person would support. Are his stated policy positions slightly to the left than the policies he ran on in, say, 2008? Sure. But, (and this is assuming he has genuinely converted on these issues; given all his flip-flops and his pithy senate record that's a stretch), they hardly count as adopting "left-wing" ideas, at all, and you have the audacity to say that "we should consider ourselves lucky"? Ok. Have fun in November. If he wins, it will be in spite of (and not because of) progressive voters

What you’re saying is you want Biden to basically adopt the entire progressive platform. Which you know he obviously won’t.

Lowering the Medicare age to 60 isn't a progressive/left-wing policy]

TIL expanding access to healthcare and reducing the uninsured rate isn’t progressive.

He also doesn’t support loan forgiveness for middle to lower class people

 This is a lie.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/what-joe-biden-would-do-for-student-loan-borrowers.html
“As president, he said he would forgive undergraduate federal student loan debt picked up at public colleges for those earning less than $125,000 a year”

Biden has actually said he would veto a Medicare for All policy if it came to his desk, how is that in any way making concessions

Because that isn’t what a concession is. Biden has no obligation to adopt one of Bernie’s main policies. Concession isn’t rolling over and giving the other side what they want it’s meeting them half way and coming to an agreement. Tell me, do you oppose lowering the Medicare age to 60, or would you rather have Trump, who wouldn’t lower it at all? Do you support Biden’s proposed reforms for Climate change or would you rather have Trump, who openly denies the existence of Climate Change?

For people who call themselves “progressives” it’s interesting how adamant you are about not supporting Biden. You will get a hell of a lot more progress on issues like Climate Change and healthcare with Biden as president. Fir

You people don’t want concessions, you want Biden to cater to your every demand, you won’t be pleased unless he promises to Sign M4A and GND within his first 100 days in office. The fact is, in politics you can’t always get what you want, often you will have to settle for less. With Biden and Trump, progressives can either get some of what they want or nothing at all. It isn’t a hard choice.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

It's been a month since she's been picked. Why does it matter now rather than within 48 hours of her being picked?


Than again, I get that we need to fill our weekly quota of Anti-Bernie AOC Rose Twitter "The Left" threads & airing of months old grievances

Yeah, honestly, attacks from the "left" seem really low on the totem pole right now. They don't matter. They didn't matter before, and they really don't matter now. They're not even reaching anywhere besides the echo chamber of Rose Twitter

The whole "far left vs moderate left" conflict feels very inconsequential and old hat now. Even complaints of "Rose Twitter" or AOC don't seem as prominent anymore outside of the 2-3 folks that care enough to bring them up. It almost feels like such debates & grievances are out of habit and Atlas users desire to always retort to any kind of dissenting opinion (See the current debate which is surrounding this comment).

Markey/Kennedy, on a smaller scale, was the last big interparty conflict of the campaign season. And since that primary, it feels like more Democrats have been on the same page than at anytime in the last 5 years.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, who gives a sh*t about Tara Reade? Or if an anti-Biden liberal with 20,000 Twitter followers shockingly made another Anti-Biden comment. I'm just tired of the redundant catfighting & reopening of old wounds & sense of entitlement on both sides.

Nonetheless, we'll be back next week in a new thread with the same leftist debate & the same grievances & the same fingerpointing. t's like the annoying political equivalent of Groundhog Day

[Landslide Lyndon]

What you’re saying is you want Biden to basically adopt the entire progressive platform. Which you know he obviously won’t.

The entitlement of these people is breathtaking. They want the winner to fully embrace the agenda of the loser or else he is no better than Trump. This kind of people aren't interested in improving people's lives, they just want to watch the world burn.

[Blair]

You can't really deflect it; like if someone is claiming that Joe Biden is a rapist or that Kamala Harris has a record that they feel makes her unfit to be VP then what can the campaign do?

[Blair]

Ultimately progressives have two choices; try & imbed themself within the Democratic party at enough levels to have a significant influence over Joe Biden and his Administration or sit on the sidelines.

It's as simple as that.

The progressive wing of the party has a lot more influence then it did in 2008 where you had a much larger moderate caucus in both the House & the Senate.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Ultimately progressives have two choices; try & imbed themself within the Democratic party at enough levels to have a significant influence over Joe Biden and his Administration or sit on the sidelines.

It's as simple as that.

The progressive wing of the party has a lot more influence then it did in 2008 where you had a much larger moderate caucus in both the House & the Senate.

One idea is to convince the mainstream Democratic Party to push for universal RCV, so they can still vote for their trues values without wasting their votes. It could be a mutually beneficial relationship.

[pppolitics]

Pledge to pay for Tara Reade’s psychiatric hospital bill.

[Big Abraham]

What you’re saying is you want Biden to basically adopt the entire progressive platform. Which you know he obviously won’t.

Yeah, no. I'll settle for just one or two actual progressive policies at this point. Not centrist half-measures.

TIL expanding access to healthcare and reducing the uninsured rate isn’t progressive.

You're absolutely right. "Access to health care" is not even moving in the direction of universal health care, it's just a variation on the ACA, which itself is a right-wing platform originally designed by the Heritage Foundation as an alternative to universal health care which advances the interests of health insurance companies first & foremost.

This is a lie.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/what-joe-biden-would-do-for-student-loan-borrowers.html
“As president, he said he would forgive undergraduate federal student loan debt picked up at public colleges for those earning less than $125,000 a year”

His actual stated policies on his campaign website states that they "will not owe any payments" or accrue interest for less than $25k. Besides, it's another means-tested half-measure. Even the article you linked states that under this plan, if successfully accomplished, 2/3rds of all student loan debt would remain. And once again, that's assuming he actually moves forward with this plan to its full extent.

Because that isn’t what a concession is. Biden has no obligation to adopt one of Bernie’s main policies. Concession isn’t rolling over and giving the other side what they want it’s meeting them half way and coming to an agreement.

He doesn't have to adopt it; he just doesn't have to actually kill it if Congress passes it on its own initiative. That's going beyond mere lack of support. That's detrimental to the platform entirely.

Tell me, do you oppose lowering the Medicare age to 60, or would you rather have Trump, who wouldn’t lower it at all? Do you support Biden’s proposed reforms for Climate change or would you rather have Trump, who openly denies the existence of Climate Change?

Ah yes, the ole "our neoliberal's positions are oh-so marginally better than the other guy's positions, so therefore vote for us". If Biden were truly an inspiring candidate in his own right, you wouldn't have to draw comparisons with Trump in order to goad people into voting for him. They would just vote for him anyway

For people who call themselves “progressives” it’s interesting how adamant you are about not supporting Biden. You will get a hell of a lot more progress on issues like Climate Change and healthcare with Biden as president.

There isn't a "hell of a lot more" progress either way, as I already laid out. 15 years for eliminating carbon from nuclear plants, if that's even successful, is not even close to what actually needs to be done to address this issue with the rapidly receding timeframe we have. It's almost a joke at this point

You people don’t want concessions, you want Biden to cater to your every demand, you won’t be pleased unless he promises to Sign M4A and GND within his first 100 days in office. The fact is, in politics you can’t always get what you want, often you will have to settle for less. With Biden and Trump, progressives can either get some of what they want or nothing at all. It isn’t a hard choice.

Not even close; I never said anything of the sort. I said that I would expect a Democratic president to, in the event of a M4A bill being passed independently by Congress, not veto a policy which has near-universal support among members of his party and many independents (not just progressives), or to adopt at least one or two legitimate left-wing proposals on the climate issue. He has done neither.

[Pyro]

There is a segment of the Left that is not persuadable, but the Biden Campaign could obviously appeal to a larger section of the progressive Democratic base if it so desired. As has been very clear from the start, their campaign is geared toward attracting the mythical, suburban moderate Republican voters first and foremost. Young people and former Berniecrats are expected to get in line, and will be pestered and shamed into doing so. The fact is that Biden is not interested in policy concessions and is squarely running to unseat Trump. If Biden wins, it will be due a massive public backlash against Trump and his criminal mismanagement of the pandemic, not this ridiculous centrist campaign strategy.