Germany strengthens hate speech laws

[lfromnj]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-to-tighten-hate-speech-gun-laws-following-synagogue-attack/

[Omega21]

Posturing by a Govt. which alienated half of their voter base in record time.

The guy who did the shooting did it with a gun that was falling apart, shooting like a bullet every 10-15 seconds.

I hate it when people use a single incident to erode people's rights, and it's not like Germany is a free speech/gun heaven as it is.

[President Johnson]

It's a good move in theory, but some thing won't work in pratice I guess.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Restricting Free Speech is always insane and very authoritarian


Also the excuse of we are significantly regulating free speech in response to what the Nazis did is laughable and terrible excuse  because what the Nazis did was they kepy passing laws which restricted free speech and did it until there was no free speech left . So that argument should be laughed at and people who make that argument should be told that they are historically inaccurate in every way possible and they should go back and learn basic history .



Almost every atrocity that happened in history did not happen because the people had to much freedom , it happened because their government was authoritarian in every way .




What should happen is the penalty for terrorism should be increased

[OSR stands with Israel]

Posturing by a Govt. which alienated half of their voter base in record time.

The guy who did the shooting did it with a gun that was falling apart, shooting like a bullet every 10-15 seconds.

I hate it when people use a single incident to erode people's rights, and it's not like Germany is a free speech/gun heaven as it is.

It’s a core difference between American and European culture . European nations for thousands of years  have believed government should be more involved in people’s lives and that freedoms should be restricted while here in America it’s the complete opposite . We were founded on the belief that the government should only get involved when people rights are directly being violated and that taking away liberties in the name of security is unacceptable.

[OSR stands with Israel]

It’s a core difference between American and European culture . European nations for thousands of years  have believed government should be more involved in people’s lives and that freedoms should be restricted while here in America it’s the complete opposite . We were founded on the belief that the government should only get involved when people rights are directly being violated and that taking away liberties in the name of security is unacceptable.

Which is why you have the Patriot act, extraordinary rendition, arbitrary drone strikes and torture people in Guantanamo.The United States is a joke of a country. Very freedom, much small government, when you are randomly abducted and being waterboarded for being falsely blacklisted by the CIA, yes.

The patriot act lasted 14 years and was watered down in 2015 due to how much opposition in drew from the people while in Europe the opposite trend has taken place.  As for drone strikes , um the US is fighting a war what is it supposed to do, not fight and Guantanamo is basically a place where we place prisoners of the war on terror but even then we barely use it anymore.

[Omega21]

It’s a core difference between American and European culture . European nations for thousands of years  have believed government should be more involved in people’s lives and that freedoms should be restricted while here in America it’s the complete opposite . We were founded on the belief that the government should only get involved when people rights are directly being violated and that taking away liberties in the name of security is unacceptable.

Which is why you have the Patriot act, extraordinary rendition, arbitrary drone strikes and torture people in Guantanamo.The United States is a joke of a country. Very freedom, much small government, when you are randomly abducted and being waterboarded for being falsely blacklisted by the CIA, yes.

The patriot act lasted 14 years and was watered down in 2015 due to how much opposition in drew from the people while in Europe the opposite trend has taken place.  As for drone strikes , um the US is fighting a war what is it supposed to do, not fight and Guantanamo is basically a place where we place prisoners of the war on terror but even then we barely use it anymore.

As for spying and horrible treatment of whistleblowers, the US is definitely worse. The NSA has violated the privacy of millions of citizens, and the man who spoke out about it had to go to .... Russia to be protected from the system meant to prosecute those who do the right thing.

If Snowden had a trial, he would not be allowed to explain to the jury why he did what he was doing, which would be a gross violation of his "God-given" rights as you would say over there. It's the only exception where the defendant is not able to do this, as it's part of some old-ass espionage-national security act. All the while someone who massacres 50 people can always argue it was self-defence, or he did it because of x reason, no matter how stupid the argument is.

Now,

It’s a core difference between American and European culture . European nations for thousands of years  have believed government should be more involved in people’s lives and that freedoms should be restricted while here in America it’s the complete opposite . We were founded on the belief that the government should only get involved when people rights are directly being violated and that taking away liberties in the name of security is unacceptable.

Europe is not one basket of eggs all of the same colour, although your core argument is correct, anyone saying free speech is less restricted in Europe is misinformed or lying.

In Austria, for example, gun rights are not bad. As a citizen, you can get a bolt action or a shotgun with your ID or Passport, no permit, no nothing.

If you want a semi-auto pistol or rifle, you have a right to a permit, as long as you can pass a simple psych test at a doctor of your choice and have no record. Note I say right, not a privilege. If you make an application with the reason "Home Defense", fulfil the previous 2 conditions, you will receive your permit within 6 months. If they do not issue it, the court quickly takes care of it as they did not fulfil their duty.


As for speech, there's not much I can say really. It's not like there's no free speech, but it's definitely not at the level it should be.

I support the ban on Nazi Insignia (as it's fairly straightforward and can not be abused by the Govt), but fining people for calling a religious figure a bad word is really concerning. (There was already a case of a woman commenting on Mohamad last year or so)

[Pick Up the Phone]

Restricting Free Speech is always insane and very authoritarian

No, it isn't. What's insane is rather the idea that an abstract concept (or should I say: empty signifier) like "free speech" gives you a carte blanche to brutally mock, insult, or threaten other people, especially vulnerable minorities. It is the duty of the state to ensure a discursive climate of civility.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Restricting Free Speech is always insane and very authoritarian

No, it isn't. What's insane is rather the idea that an abstract concept (or should I say: empty signifier) like "free speech" gives you a carte blanche to brutally mock, insult, or threaten other people, especially vulnerable minorities. It is the duty of the state to ensure a discursive climate of civility.

I will exercise my right to free speech by calling you a [buncha names] in that case. If you can’t stand mockery and insults, than you joined the wrong forum.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I suppose that according to some people Julius Streicher should've been acquitted in Nuremberg because "muh free speech!"

[OSR stands with Israel]

I suppose that according to some people Julius Streicher should've been acquitted in Nuremberg because "muh free speech!"

Being one of the lead propagandists for literally State-Sponsered Media is literally the opposite of Free Speech/Freedom of Press

[Omega21]

I suppose that according to some people Julius Streicher should've been acquitted in Nuremberg because "muh free speech!"

A lot of the things his paper published were calls to action against Jews, and that's illegal regardless of free speech.

[Annatar]

Laws defending free speech only exist to allow speech that people find despicable, free speech laws don't exist so people can say "I want to buy that shirt", not even the most totalitarian regime would ban such speech, free speech laws only exist to defend speech that people find hateful, that's why hate speech laws in and of themselves signal a country does not support free speech.

[dead0man]

wait, I thought they had plenty of hate speech law already....was it not working?  Do they normally double down on things that don't work?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I suppose that according to some people Julius Streicher should've been acquitted in Nuremberg because "muh free speech!"

A lot of the things his paper published were calls to action against Jews, and that's illegal regardless of free speech.

Which is exactly why we must make distinction between hate speech that is either direct or indirect indictment to violence/other illegal actions (I'd argue that works of certain William Luther Pierce would fit the same category as Streicher), and genuine free speech.

[lfromnj]

Laws defending free speech only exist to allow speech that people find despicable, free speech laws don't exist so people can say "I want to buy that shirt", not even the most totalitarian regime would ban such speech, free speech laws only exist to defend speech that people find hateful, that's why hate speech laws in and of themselves signal a country does not support free speech.

But but journalists tell me Germany is one the most free countries in the world with regards to speech.

[Kingpoleon]

It's a good move in theory, but some thing won't work in pratice I guess.

When you ban speech, you aren’t telling people such speech is bad - you are telling people you fear such speech.