Diebold would rather lose all of its voting machine business in North Carolina
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  Diebold would rather lose all of its voting machine business in North Carolina
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Author Topic: Diebold would rather lose all of its voting machine business in North Carolina  (Read 1509 times)
MODU
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2005, 09:28:27 PM »

(Just using your messages to address some key aspect of the electronic voting machine, and not necessarily your point of view.)

I'm talking about receiving a paper ballot which the voter can review to verify its accuracy before he puts it in the vote counter. I wouldn't call it a receipt because you don't get to keep it.

This is where I fail to see the logic in the debate.  For decades, the lever-activated voting booths did not provide a hardcopy ballot for the voter to hold and feel when the vote was cast.  The vote is marked on a large roll within the machine, and the vote cannot be verified without extracting the roll and using a template to see how the vote was marked.  This is much similiar to the electronic voting systems.  Both are open for error and tampering, though I would think that tampering electronic code would be harder to do since these systems are not networked together to an outside system, requiring you to alter the system right there in the facility.  And, with Florida 2000 being a perfect example, even paper ballots where the person directly marks/punch can result in even greater error and/or disqualified vote.  So the argument of a hand-held slip of paper is also insignificant.


Not to mention receipts actually make a recount possible. Computerized voting with no paper trail is so incredibly stupid it boggles my mind how anyone could think it's a good idea.

The first generation machines did not have a paper record (like a cash register receipt roll) to record all the votes from the machine.  All the following versions do have this record which can be used to match agains the recorded votes in the case of a recount.   Additionally, before, during, and after the polls are open, each system is checked to ensure it is recording the votes correctly.  Systems recording wrong votes are removed from service for the rest of the day.  It was not as easy to do this with the lever voting booths since the testing could only be done after the roll was extracted and a test roll fed into the machine.
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jfern
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2005, 09:33:55 PM »

Optical voting is the most sensible voting method. Fill in a bubble with a #2 pencil. It's cheap, it has a paper trail, and it has a fairly low rate of undervotes.

If however, electronic voting is desired, what makes the most sense is to vote on the machine, confirm your answers, and then it prints out how you voted. The printout is the actual ballot that is easily machine readable. You place that in a box where no-one can see it. A machine then reads in these results. As a check against fraud, they're compared to the electronic voting machine totals.

I've heard of far too many cases of funny stuff happening with Diebold. Why are their machines both closed source and paper trail-less?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2005, 01:59:56 AM »

Ditto on that one. The voting machines should produce a paper ballot which can be read by machines and humans. Voters can check the ballot and verify their vote before they hand it in, and manual recounts are possible if necessary.
Machine printed ballots are easy to fake.  What happens if someone slips a fake ballot into the ballot box, and during a recount a discrepancy between the machine count and the ballot count shows up?  Which are you going to trust (the machine that printed the ballot, or the same machine that counted the vote)?
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jimrtex
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2005, 02:12:47 AM »

Optical voting is the most sensible voting method. Fill in a bubble with a #2 pencil. It's cheap, it has a paper trail, and it has a fairly low rate of undervotes.
If Florida 2000, some counties had high rates of overvotes with optical sense ballots (much higher than Palm Beach).

If there are devices that validate ballots, they may result in coercion or humiliation of voters.  And these devices can not be used with absentee ballots.

Optical voting requires customized ballots reflecting the races in each particular precinct, and could conceivably require multi-page ballots.  This increases the possiblity of error through ballot mixup.
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