Bush undermining case for second term

[ShapeShifter]

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/raasch/2004-05-06-raasch_x.htm?csp=1

[ShapeShifter]

Bremer First Heard of Abuse in January

[opebo]

This 'abuse' story is totally overblown, and will soon redound against the Democrats.  The public will rally behind our boys - who were after all only pranking terrorists.  The Democrats will be seen to be anti-American for stressing this essentially unimportant issue.

[ShapeShifter]

This 'abuse' story is totally overblown, and will soon redound against the Democrats.  The public will rally behind our boys - who were after all only pranking terrorists.  The Democrats will be seen to be anti-American for stressing this essentially unimportant issue.

Spin Spin Spin like the merry go around

[opebo]

This 'abuse' story is totally overblown, and will soon redound against the Democrats.  The public will rally behind our boys - who were after all only pranking terrorists.  The Democrats will be seen to be anti-American for stressing this essentially unimportant issue.

Spin Spin Spin like the merry go around

I honestly believe a majority of voters - certainly here in Missouri - object more to the gleeful media/Democrat attacks on our boys than they do to the supposed 'abuse'.  Not spin, honest opinion from the Midwest.

[ShapeShifter]

This 'abuse' story is totally overblown, and will soon redound against the Democrats.  The public will rally behind our boys - who were after all only pranking terrorists.  The Democrats will be seen to be anti-American for stressing this essentially unimportant issue.

Spin Spin Spin like the merry go around

I honestly believe a majority of voters - certainly here in Missouri - object more to the gleeful media/Democrat attacks on our boys than they do to the supposed 'abuse'.  Not spin, honest opinion from the Midwest.

They aren't attacking the boys. They are attacking the leaders of our boys. How can you defend those "soliders" who partake in something as inhumane as this?

You mean honest opinion from Opebo?

[opebo]

This 'abuse' story is totally overblown, and will soon redound against the Democrats.  The public will rally behind our boys - who were after all only pranking terrorists.  The Democrats will be seen to be anti-American for stressing this essentially unimportant issue.

Spin Spin Spin like the merry go around

I honestly believe a majority of voters - certainly here in Missouri - object more to the gleeful media/Democrat attacks on our boys than they do to the supposed 'abuse'.  Not spin, honest opinion from the Midwest.

They aren't attacking the boys. They are attacking the leaders of our boys. How can you defend those "soliders" who partake in something as inhumane as this?

You mean honest opinion from Opebo?

I think I'm more representative than people would like to believe.  And I do defend these soldiers - what they did was just a little mischevious, a little undisciplined.  Probably too much time on their hands.  After all keep in mind these people they're dealing with are utter savages who would do worse to them in a moment, had they they chance.

[dazzleman]

If only the liberals could muster half the outrage they have about this prisoner scandal when the victims of this type of treatment are Americans.

I think it speaks well of us that we are upset over the mistreatment of people in our custody.

I don't condone this mistreatment, but the outrage exhibited by some people seems to be selective.  Those in the Arab world who condemn this rejoice when it happens to Americans.  And liberals are only too happy  to have something else to blame on the US.  Would the outrage from the liberals and the Arabs be the same if the situation were reversed?  I think we all know the answer to that.

[ShapeShifter]

If only the liberals could muster half the outrage they have about this prisoner scandal when the victims of this type of treatment are Americans.

I think it speaks well of us that we are upset over the mistreatment of people in our custody.

I don't condone this mistreatment, but the outrage exhibited by some people seems to be selective.  Those in the Arab world who condemn this rejoice when it happens to Americans.  And liberals are only too happy  to have something else to blame on the US.  Would the outrage from the liberals and the Arabs be the same if the situation were reversed?  I think we all know the answer to that.

Once again, the reason there is no outrage when the victim is an american is because it is expected of others. However, when we are doing the victimizing, it is not expected of us. We are held up to different standards in the world and it is high standards because we are the sole super power. Also, stop blaming everything solely on the liberals.

[dazzleman]

I do blame liberals for having a double standard that disadvantages us in a struggle against a great evil.  If liberals had thought the same way during World War II as they do today, they would have been condemning American actions against Germans and Japanese, while turning a blind eye to the death camps.

There will always be atrocities in war.  For some countries, they're an aberration, and for others a matter of deliberate policy.  It makes no sense to condemn those for whom atrocities are an aberration, while having a tolerant attitude toward those who inflict atrocities as a deliberate policy..

[Gustaf]

I do blame liberals for having a double standard that disadvantages us in a struggle against a great evil.  If liberals had thought the same way during World War II as they do today, they would have been condemning American actions against Germans and Japanese, while turning a blind eye to the death camps.

There will always be atrocities in war.  For some countries, they're an aberration, and for others a matter of deliberate policy.  It makes no sense to condemn those for whom atrocities are an aberration, while having a tolerant attitude toward those who inflict atrocities as a deliberate policy..

I would be a lot more outraged when MY government does something wrong than if an other country's government does something wrong. That is rather natural. Just like I would be more outraged if a friend insulted me than if someone I don't know or like did.

[dazzleman]

I would be a lot more outraged when MY government does something wrong than if an other country's government does something wrong. That is rather natural. Just like I would be more outraged if a friend insulted me than if someone I don't know or like did.

It's too bad people in the Middle East don't feel this way.

[classical liberal]

War is by definition atrocity, I suggest that everyone get over it.

[Giant Saguaro]

I initially was alarmed by the prisoner abuse story, but now I agree that it's time to get over it.

Now that Ted Kennedy is attempting to make it an issue and use it as a weapon to get at Rummy, I don't know, like someone else said it might backfire on the Dems. I saw a poll on the polling report that showed a sizable majority thought Rummy should keep his job.

This was overreacted to and if we keep bringing it up, all it does is hurt the country, whip up more anti-America hatred, and put our troops in peril.

[Gustaf]

I initially was alarmed by the prisoner abuse story, but now I agree that it's time to get over it.

Now that Ted Kennedy is attempting to make it an issue and use it as a weapon to get at Rummy, I don't know, like someone else said it might backfire on the Dems. I saw a poll on the polling report that showed a sizable majority thought Rummy should keep his job.

This was overreacted to and if we keep bringing it up, all it does is hurt the country, whip up more anti-America hatred, and put our troops in peril.

If you have a get ovet it attitude it will certainly whip up more anti-America hatred.

And yes Dazzleman, that's too bad. It's the way things work. Not all people are good and you adapt to that and act accordingly. Or you victimize yourself. Take your pick...

[agcatter]

Dems better tread very carefully on this issue.  If it looks like they are trying to politicize this, it will backfire on them.  They are, but they can't afford to look like it.  Senator Ted Kennedy better shut up - he's not helping his party.  Of course, he can't seem to help himself.  Neither can Byrd, Dayton, Levin, Hillary and the rest.

[dazzleman]

I think that we should hold ourselves to high standards, but not allow ourselves to be hobbled by standards of behavior that are significantly higher than those of the people who have vowed to kill as many of us as possible.

If the mindset of today's liberals had been prevalent in World War II, we would have lost the war to Hitler and the Japanese.  Certainly there were atrocities committed in that war, but of course the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese were far greater than those committed by the Americans and British.  Today's liberals would have ignored the death camps and death marches and worried about whether German POWs were read their miranda rights.  It's an absurd position.

I think it would be a big mistake to allow those who do not have our best interests at heart to frame the debate pitting the US against perfection.  That is what certain liberals and certain foreigners who have far more blood on their hands that we have seek to do.  Our standards of behavior, even taking this brouhaha into account, are far higher than you will find in any middle eastern country, even among the more elements of society.  Unless these people have overnight become closet humanitarians, there is a great hypocrisy here.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

The soldiers who committed these acts are war criminals. If the administration procecutes them and takes measures to insure that this dosen't happen again, they will gain points.

But it could have been going on for months, we just don't know yet.  If it has been happening, I wouldn't be surprised.  Typical Bush, don't care until it might hurt his poll numbers.  

And these pictures are extremely damaging to our country.  We said we going in there as liberators, and this crap turns up.  

[Gustaf]

I think that we should hold ourselves to high standards, but not allow ourselves to be hobbled by standards of behavior that are significantly higher than those of the people who have vowed to kill as many of us as possible.

If the mindset of today's liberals had been prevalent in World War II, we would have lost the war to Hitler and the Japanese.  Certainly there were atrocities committed in that war, but of course the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese were far greater than those committed by the Americans and British.  Today's liberals would have ignored the death camps and death marches and worried about whether German POWs were read their miranda rights.  It's an absurd position.

I think it would be a big mistake to allow those who do not have our best interests at heart to frame the debate pitting the US against perfection.  That is what certain liberals and certain foreigners who have far more blood on their hands that we have seek to do.  Our standards of behavior, even taking this brouhaha into account, are far higher than you will find in any middle eastern country, even among the more elements of society.  Unless these people have overnight become closet humanitarians, there is a great hypocrisy here.

Of course there is. Most people are hypocritical.

I think we actually agree, but are attacking this from different perspectives.

One always competes with the expectatinos you have on you. If you want people to expect roughly the same of the US as of Saddam Hussein or Hitler and you're fine with sending out that message, then by all means. But it won't produce a very good image. If you want to be viewed more favourably, you will have higher expectations on you.

The wife of Caesar must be above all suspicion, or whatever the quote is like in English.

[ericadler]

Bush really hasn't done a very good job explaining to the country why he should be reelected.  He'll win anyway, just by virtue of the fact that Christ will come back before this country elects John Kerry.