So, PR, what are those ideologies that aren't made up?

[dead0man]

It was hilarious when you said libertarianism was a made up ideology.  total burn!  I now give you this thread to list the the non-made up ideologies (please elaborate on their birth, I'm very curious).

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I recall TNF making a similar claim. In substitution for libertarianism he allowed for conservative liberalism (or vice versa), and for communitarianism, Christian Democracy.

[dead0man]

I was really hoping he'd explain himself.  Perhaps I don't understand what he means by "made up" or "ideologies".  It is weird how special non-libertarains think libertarianism is though....wait...wasn't it PR that had the awful thread about how smug libertarians are?  And was totally smug about it?  Then dodged every critic of his goofy claims for weeks?



His hard on for libertarians isn't going very well...at least for him.  Makes libertarians look great though!

[All Along The Watchtower]

Sorry, missed this. Glad you still love me though!

Conservatism, Liberalism, and Socialism are some broad terms that I think we can agree upon.

I don't quite understand what libertarianism is in part because I've never gotten a coherent or remotely consistent answer from self-proclaimed libertarians, but also I'm obviously not as smart or as clever as a baseline cynical Gen X'er.

Perhaps you can enlighten me, dead-man.

[dead0man]

You don't think Socialism is a made up ideology?  Was it handed down from God or nature like gravity and electromagnetism?  And you think we've gotten a coherent or remotely consistent answer to what it is?

[catographer]

what does "made-up" mean? all "ideologies" are created by people, therefore they're all kind of "made-up."

[dead0man]

what does "made-up" mean? all "ideologies" are created by people, therefore they're all kind of "made-up."

that's exactly my point.  I assumed this was rather obvious, but apparently not to PR who thinks "Liberalism" existed before humans.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

what does "made-up" mean? all "ideologies" are created by people, therefore they're all kind of "made-up."

that's exactly my point.  I assumed this was rather obvious, but apparently not to PR who thinks "Liberalism" existed before humans.

If I had to guess, he’s making an as of yet ill-defined distinction between ideologies that arise out of social and historical forces, and those that one might simply think up and say “this sounds like a good idea!” To some extent, this likely hails from Marxist views on social structure (material before mind), but these types would prefer to be opaque, so I suppose we’ll never know.

[All Along The Watchtower]

what does "made-up" mean? all "ideologies" are created by people, therefore they're all kind of "made-up."

that's exactly my point.  I assumed this was rather obvious, but apparently not to PR who thinks "Liberalism" existed before humans.

If I had to guess, he’s making an as of yet ill-defined distinction between ideologies that arise out of social and historical forces, and those that one might simply think up and say “this sounds like a good idea!” To some extent, this likely hails from Marxist views on social structure (material before mind), but these types would prefer to be opaque, so I suppose we’ll never know.

You're on the right track. In general I find that political ideologies that are

a) wildly overrepresented on the Internet as compared to real life, past and/or present
b) aren't original or even internally consistent in their core assumptions, and
c) are incredibly culturally myopic

Don't make much sense, even on their own terms (specifically relevant to b) above).

Basically, Libertarianism just seems very confused, and from what I can glean it's mostly an appropriation of certain forms of 19th century Liberal ideology (particularly a certain form of liberal economic reasoning) for 21st century purposes in American and to a lesser extent, some other countries' politics.

Granted, plenty of contemporary New Left ripoffs/"Social Justice Warriors" are serial out-of-context plagiarizers of terms and rhetoric going back decades themselves, so it's not a uniquely Libertarian problem, I'll grant you that.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

So what makes it fake? Its misapplication of principles? Or the fact that it is held among very few people?