Why Aren't Public Schools More Like Universities?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 02, 2024, 06:09:15 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Why Aren't Public Schools More Like Universities?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Why Aren't Public Schools More Like Universities?  (Read 995 times)
Bono
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,703
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: September 05, 2005, 05:23:17 AM »

www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4549

Why Aren't Public Schools More Like Universities?

by Richard K. Vedder

Richard Vedder is Distinguished Professor of Economics, Ohio University and is author of Going Broke By Degree; Why College Costs Too Much (AEI Press, 2004).

There is widespread agreement that America has the best universities in the world. Foreign students enroll by the hundreds of thousands, and American college professors dominate the Nobel Prize lists.

But virtually no one says we have the best K-12 education in the world. To the contrary, many lament the poor showing of American students on international tests. What makes American universities so much better than our primary and secondary schools?

While many factors are at work, much of the explanation can be summarized in two words: "privatization" and "markets." About a third of four-year college students attend private institutions, and the proportion is growing. By contrast, only one-eighth of K-12 kids attend private schools.

Moreover, even public universities are far more independent of the political process than K-12 schools. Public universities have greater ability to hire and fire staff, pay people on the basis of merit, change curricula, and face far less interference from obstructionist labor unions.

These organizational differences are important. Countless academic studies show that kids learn better in private schools or in public schools that manage to remain independent of central bureaucracies. While there are exceptions, universities are more decentralized, more innovative, and less constrained by mindless rules and regulations like teacher certification requirements and class-size restrictions.

More important, however, is the fact that universities are far more subject to the discipline of the market, meaning they face financial consequences for displeasing students or parents. Nearly every American college student has to pay tuition covering a significant percentage of the cost. If colleges fail to serve the students well, they may lose tuition revenues or fall in rankings issued by organizations. Top spots in the US News & World Report list are particularly coveted.

By contrast, very few public schools charge anything for attendance. Because parents "pay" for schools only indirectly through property taxes, they demand expensive but inefficient features like small classes. While classes of over 30 are rare for high school seniors, many college kids learn quite well a year later as college freshman in lectures of 200 -- and the parents rarely complain because they are now paying the bill.

Rising tuition charges at colleges and universities have increased opportunities for profit-making private schools like the University of Phoenix that have great promise both as educational institutions and as businesses. This competition forces traditional not-for-profit schools to improve quality, reduce costs, or implement other innovations to attract students. By contrast, for-profit K-12 schools tend to be financially weak since they face a huge price disadvantage relative to "free" public schools.

Can K-12 reformers learn something from the universities? Yes, with caveats. As costs for public schools rise, cash-strapped governments should consider freezing subsidies to the public schools and allow them to charge tuition. To avert arguments that we are denying access to the poor, "progressive vouchers" like those once advocated by Robert Reich might be used. As tuition charges rise beyond 10-20 percent of revenues, public schools could take on a more private dimension, perhaps by putting some parents on the school governing boards, and lowering government regulations and centralized control as private funding increases.

Yet there are limits to this approach. America's universities themselves face only limited market discipline owing to huge payments by federal and state government, not to mention private loan and scholarship programs. University tuition charges have gone up even faster than health care charges, largely because the customer has become insensitive to price changes as others pick up the tab.

A move toward the college model for K-12 schools should avoid the morass of government student loan programs that have contributed to the tuition rise. Moreover, accountability at many colleges is limited, allowing administrators to waste resources on pet projects that would not be approved by customers if spending were more transparent.

We must be careful to avoid the pitfalls that have caused universities to become more costly, less efficient, and disconnected from their consumers. But by adopting some of the strengths of American colleges we might be able to close the quality gap between basic and higher education which threatens American students.

this article originally appeared on FoxNews.com on Sept. 1, 2005
Logged
Platypus
hughento
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,478
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2005, 05:27:12 AM »

I agree. I'd encourage better public schools, freer from 'central bureaucracies' over private schools, but public schools in Australia, and I believe America, aren't up to par. I go to a public school, but it is freer from the education department then others, and as such is one of the most sucessful schools in the state-third, in fact, after a tiny elite Jewish school and the female version of our school.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2005, 09:59:16 AM »

K-12 education is compulsory in the US; you have people that don't want to be there.  University education is not; nearly everybody there wants to be there.

That's one of the major differences.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2005, 10:13:03 AM »

K-12 education is compulsory in which states?
Logged
dazzleman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,777
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 10:13:31 AM »

K-12 education is compulsory in the US; you have people that don't want to be there.  University education is not; nearly everybody there wants to be there.

That's one of the major differences.

Also, universities can choose whom they accept, while public schools cannot.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2005, 10:17:31 AM »

K-12 education is compulsory in which states?

All.  Some form of education, including home schooling, is required.
Logged
Wakie
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,767


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2005, 10:20:44 AM »

It should also be noted that public schools do not have the financial resources which universities do.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2005, 10:21:44 AM »

Those laws are absurd, and should be repealed.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 10:26:05 AM »

Those laws are absurd, and should be repealed.

Oh, goodie, we can have more illiterate people running around. 
Logged
DanielX
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,126
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -4.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2005, 10:33:11 AM »

It should also be noted that public schools do not have the financial resources which universities do.

And they generally need a good deal less, no?

Universities can have 30,000 or more students - It is a rare public school that has even 5,000. Most have between 500 and 2,000. Now, not all public universities have 30,000 students, but a great many have at least 5,000. 

Public schools do not have to house their students. Public schools only need to serve at most 10 meals a week (most universities serve 19 meals a week - 3 meals a day weekdays, 2 weekends). Public schools generally have much smaller building area, and are only used 12 hours or less a day, therefore require a much smaller custodial staff. They do not have to have nearly as much security. The science and engineering departments require less equipment. 

Of course, proportionally the funding may be less. And of course, no public school is going to make you pay $100 for the textbook. But still...
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2005, 10:35:30 AM »

Those laws are absurd, and should be repealed.

Oh, goodie, we can have more illiterate people running around.

Uh, no. Parents should be responsible for teaching their own children, with no criteria set by the school.
Logged
Wakie
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,767


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2005, 10:42:30 AM »

It should also be noted that public schools do not have the financial resources which universities do.

And they generally need a good deal less, no?

Universities can have 30,000 or more students - It is a rare public school that has even 5,000. Most have between 500 and 2,000. Now, not all public universities have 30,000 students, but a great many have at least 5,000. 

Public schools do not have to house their students. Public schools only need to serve at most 10 meals a week (most universities serve 19 meals a week - 3 meals a day weekdays, 2 weekends). Public schools generally have much smaller building area, and are only used 12 hours or less a day, therefore require a much smaller custodial staff. They do not have to have nearly as much security. The science and engineering departments require less equipment. 

Of course, proportionally the funding may be less. And of course, no public school is going to make you pay $100 for the textbook. But still...

Actually, just as there are many smaller k-12 schools in this country there are many small universities.  What would be interesting to look at would be the ratio of students/$$.  I think we would see that at university more money is available per student to educate them.

Also, the room and board at universities is ADDED onto the cost of attending.  So you can remove that portion of the university funding, but you still have regular tuition plus the large donations which universities receive from private sources.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.229 seconds with 10 queries.