What happens if Trump fires Mueller?

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Honest question, why is it an option for a president to be able to fire someone investigating him/her?

Because the "investigator" is a DOJ appointee and serves at the pleasure of the President.

Whatever the resultant public outcry, there is no reason Trump couldn't do this, legally.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Honest question, why is it an option for a president to be able to fire someone investigating him/her?

Because the "investigator" is a DOJ appointee and serves at the pleasure of the President.

Whatever the resultant public outcry, th
ere is no reason Trump couldn't do this, legally.

This is incorrect.  Mueller can only be fired by Rosenstein (or his replacement) and only "for cause".  For details, see http://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/can-trump-fire-mueller/.

[LimoLiberal]

Day 1: Number one trending thing in the world, Democrats call for Trump's impeachment, Flake/Corker/McCain/Never-Trump call for his impeachment, mainstream Rs "wait to see more facts", Trump base elated. Marches across the country, antifa breaks the leg of some old homeless lady in the process, and conservative media seizes on this.

Day 2: Gallup shows Trump's approvals tick up a point, Atlas freaks out declaring "Our system is broken, Trump's going to get away with it!1!11", Nancy Pelosi+Chuck Schumer press conference introducing articles of impeachment.

Day 10: Gallup has Trump at 27-68, Barbara Comstock, Mike Coffman, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen declare that they're going to caucus as independents. More marches.

Day 20: Leaks come out to the press about some of the stuff Mueller was working on, looks bad, but nobody really cares cause they're all still angry about the firing.

Day 40: Trump golfs 5 days a week, gives 10 minutes SOTU address where he rails against traitorous Rs and calls Comstock a c*nt and that he wouldn't f**k her if someone gave him a billion dollars.

Day 70: Trump approval at 22-74. Bannon, Roy Moore, and Trump are seen together regularly. Pence basically assumes the duties of the presidency as Kushner and Ivanka leave the white house.

Day whatever: Republicans lose 65 seats in the house, Democrats gain 52-48 Senate majority.

Day whatever: Trump impeachment trial stars, he resigns on the second day.




 

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Honest question, why is it an option for a president to be able to fire someone investigating him/her?

Because the "investigator" is a DOJ appointee and serves at the pleasure of the President.

Whatever the resultant public outcry, th
ere is no reason Trump couldn't do this, legally.

True enough.

But Trump can fire Rosenstein.  And the Solicitor General.  He can fire all the way down to his Bork who will follow the orders of his/her President.

I've lived through that one.

This is incorrect.  Mueller can only be fired by Rosenstein (or his replacement) and only "for cause".  For details, see http://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/can-trump-fire-mueller/.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Day 1: Number one trending thing in the world, Democrats call for Trump's impeachment, Flake/Corker/McCain/Never-Trump call for his impeachment, mainstream Rs "wait to see more facts", Trump base elated. Marches across the country, antifa breaks the leg of some old homeless lady in the process, and conservative media seizes on this.

Day 2: Gallup shows Trump's approvals tick up a point, Atlas freaks out declaring "Our system is broken, Trump's going to get away with it!1!11", Nancy Pelosi+Chuck Schumer press conference introducing articles of impeachment.

Day 10: Gallup has Trump at 27-68, Barbara Comstock, Mike Coffman, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen declare that they're going to caucus as independents. More marches.

Day 20: Leaks come out to the press about some of the stuff Mueller was working on, looks bad, but nobody really cares cause they're all still angry about the firing.

Day 40: Trump golfs 5 days a week, gives 10 minutes SOTU address where he rails against traitorous Rs and calls Comstock a c*nt and that he wouldn't f**k her if someone gave him a billion dollars.

Day 70: Trump approval at 22-74. Bannon, Roy Moore, and Trump are seen together regularly. Pence basically assumes the duties of the presidency as Kushner and Ivanka leave the white house.

Day whatever: Republicans lose 65 seats in the house, Democrats gain 52-48 Senate majority.

Day whatever: Trump impeachment trial stars, he resigns on the second day.
 

Well done.  I apologize for thinking you a hack.

[Sestak]

Day 1: Number one trending thing in the world, Democrats call for Trump's impeachment, Flake/Corker/McCain/Never-Trump call for his impeachment, mainstream Rs "wait to see more facts", Trump base elated. Marches across the country, antifa breaks the leg of some old homeless lady in the process, and conservative media seizes on this.

Day 2: Gallup shows Trump's approvals tick up a point, Atlas freaks out declaring "Our system is broken, Trump's going to get away with it!1!11", Nancy Pelosi+Chuck Schumer press conference introducing articles of impeachment.

Day 10: Gallup has Trump at 27-68, Barbara Comstock, Mike Coffman, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen declare that they're going to caucus as independents. More marches.

Day 20: Leaks come out to the press about some of the stuff Mueller was working on, looks bad, but nobody really cares cause they're all still angry about the firing.

Day 40: Trump golfs 5 days a week, gives 10 minutes SOTU address where he rails against traitorous Rs and calls Comstock a c*nt and that he wouldn't f**k her if someone gave him a billion dollars.

Day 70: Trump approval at 22-74. Bannon, Roy Moore, and Trump are seen together regularly. Pence basically assumes the duties of the presidency as Kushner and Ivanka leave the white house.

Day whatever: Republicans lose 65 seats in the house, Democrats gain 52-48 Senate majority.

Day whatever: Trump impeachment trial stars, he resigns on the second day.
 

Well done.  I apologize for thinking you a hack.

It'd be more like a 54 or 55 seat D majority and 70-80 House seats if he's over 70% disapproval 😉

56 Democrats. The only Class I Republican will be Romney. Barrasso loses, Fischer loses, Wicker loses, Bredesen, Beto, Rosen, and Sinema win by wide margins.

[Free Bird]

Objective reality would not matter. Perception would as always.

Remember the freakouts over the travel ban, trans ban, DACA, and net neutrality? Put them all together, then multiply that result by 40. That's what would happen.

[Silent Hunter]

Congress would reinstate the Mueller investigation as soon as it was back in session and Trump's re-election chances would be finished.

Serious question: are there enough votes to do this, and override Trump’s inevitable veto? It seems like the number of Mueller-skeptics in Congress has exploded over the course of the past few weeks.

The skeptics are nearly all what we in the UK call 'backbenchers'. Senior Republicans have been silent on the matter and I'm just going to remark that if you're standing behind someone, it's much easier to stab them in the back.

[History505]

Then the calls of resignation and impeachment would grow even louder.

[Person Man]

The last straw that breaks either Trump's back or "The System's". This would be a "Now or Never" deal.

[TheSaint250]

Could obstruction of justice be brought up as a legitimate charge presented as happening with the firing of Mueller?

[Person Man]

Could obstruction of justice be brought up as a legitimate charge presented as happening with the firing of Mueller?

That would really be the only way to do it.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Could obstruction of justice be brought up as a legitimate charge presented as happening with the firing of Mueller?

There's precedent for it.  The first impeachment article against Nixon (which had been voted out by the Judiciary Committee and would almost certainly have passed in the full House had Nixon not resigned) was for obstruction of justice.  One of the specifics in it was the following, which covers the Saturday Night Massacre:

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[mvd10]

He should do it before tax reform if he wants to do it. The Republicans need Trump for tax reform (impeachment would kill off any chances of the Republicans passing anything imo), and I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan and McConnell care more about passing tax reform than impeaching a president who clearly is obstructing justice. After tax reform has passed the GOP doesn't really need Trump anymore, welfare reform probably will fail anyway.

[libertpaulian]

If Trump fires Mueller, expect resignation or retirement announcements from Darrell Issa, Dana Rohrabacher, Mimi Walters, Ed Royce, Dean Heller, Barbara Comstock, Lee Zeldin, Bruce Poliquin, Peter Roskam, within 48 hours of the announcement. 

Just to name a few, of course.

[TheSaint250]

Could obstruction of justice be brought up as a legitimate charge presented as happening with the firing of Mueller?

There's precedent for it.  The first impeachment article against Nixon (which had been voted out by the Judiciary Committee and would almost certainly have passed in the full House had Nixon not resigned) was for obstruction of justice.  One of the specifics in it was the following, which covers the Saturday Night Massacre:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah ok. I knew that the first charge was obstruction, but I guess I never put two-and-two together

I doubt this would be enough for Republicans though.

[GeorgiaModerate]

He should do it before tax reform if he wants to do it. The Republicans need Trump for tax reform (impeachment would kill off any chances of the Republicans passing anything imo), and I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan and McConnell care more about passing tax reform than impeaching a president who clearly is obstructing justice. After tax reform has passed the GOP doesn't really need Trump anymore, welfare reform probably will fail anyway.

Why would it kill their chances?  They clearly have the votes in Congress, and Pence would certainly sign it.

[Crumpets]

Day 1: Number one trending thing in the world, Democrats call for Trump's impeachment, Flake/Corker/McCain/Never-Trump call for his impeachment, mainstream Rs "wait to see more facts", Trump base elated. Marches across the country, antifa breaks the leg of some old homeless lady in the process, and conservative media seizes on this.

Day 2: Gallup shows Trump's approvals tick up a point, Atlas freaks out declaring "Our system is broken, Trump's going to get away with it!1!11", Nancy Pelosi+Chuck Schumer press conference introducing articles of impeachment.

Day 10: Gallup has Trump at 27-68, Barbara Comstock, Mike Coffman, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen declare that they're going to caucus as independents. More marches.

Day 20: Leaks come out to the press about some of the stuff Mueller was working on, looks bad, but nobody really cares cause they're all still angry about the firing.

Day 40: Trump golfs 5 days a week, gives 10 minutes SOTU address where he rails against traitorous Rs and calls Comstock a c*nt and that he wouldn't f**k her if someone gave him a billion dollars.

Day 70: Trump approval at 22-74. Bannon, Roy Moore, and Trump are seen together regularly. Pence basically assumes the duties of the presidency as Kushner and Ivanka leave the white house.

Day whatever: Republicans lose 65 seats in the house, Democrats gain 52-48 Senate majority.

Day whatever: Trump impeachment trial stars, he resigns on the second day.

Pundits: "Today is the day Donald Trump became president."

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Day 1: Number one trending thing in the world, Democrats call for Trump's impeachment, Flake/Corker/McCain/Never-Trump call for his impeachment, mainstream Rs "wait to see more facts", Trump base elated. Marches across the country, antifa breaks the leg of some old homeless lady in the process, and conservative media seizes on this.

Day 2: Gallup shows Trump's approvals tick up a point, Atlas freaks out declaring "Our system is broken, Trump's going to get away with it!1!11", Nancy Pelosi+Chuck Schumer press conference introducing articles of impeachment.

Day 10: Gallup has Trump at 27-68, Barbara Comstock, Mike Coffman, and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen declare that they're going to caucus as independents. More marches.

Day 20: Leaks come out to the press about some of the stuff Mueller was working on, looks bad, but nobody really cares cause they're all still angry about the firing.

Day 40: Trump golfs 5 days a week, gives 10 minutes SOTU address where he rails against traitorous Rs and calls Comstock a c*nt and that he wouldn't f**k her if someone gave him a billion dollars.

Day 70: Trump approval at 22-74. Bannon, Roy Moore, and Trump are seen together regularly. Pence basically assumes the duties of the presidency as Kushner and Ivanka leave the white house.

Day whatever: Republicans lose 65 seats in the house, Democrats gain 52-48 Senate majority.

Day whatever: Trump impeachment trial stars, he resigns on the second day.
 

Well done.  I apologize for thinking you a hack.

It'd be more like a 54 or 55 seat D majority and 70-80 House seats if he's over 70% disapproval 😉

This is overall a pretty likely scenario, but he's not getting to 70% disapproval anytime soon unless the insanity publicly jumps up about 1000%. The deplorables are deplorable for reasons, and they're not going to easily admit their god-king is really a senile orange sack of pond scum. It'll take a year or more of a crashed economy, completely disastrous war or something similar before they'll start getting off the abomination train. Until then, his floor is around 33%.

So I suppose he could hit 70% by next November, but the catastrophe would have to start unfolding in a way that will be obvious to the deplorables real soon. (Trump already is a catastrophe, but they're far too stupid to realize it. Yet.)

[GeorgiaModerate]

From the Washington Director of MoveOn:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[anvi]

I guess that, for Trump, firing Mueller is a calculated risk.  If he fires Mueller, there are considerable chances that he can save his presidency (the GOP on the Hill stonewalls, he doesn't lose any real support among his base, and they don't suffer severe House losses in the midterms, the NY investigations aren't high-powered enough, and the Dems don't come up with an appealing candidate in 2020).  If he doesn't fire Mueller, he may have very little chance, much less by comparison, to save his presidency.  

[The Mikado]

The best-case scenario for Trump is that he does it in the week between Christmas and New Years, when most of the news shows are off or doing annual recaps and Congress is out of session, and everyone is travelling so organizing protests will be tricky. A December 28th or 29th firing of Mueller would be super-hard to respond to.

[Silent Hunter]

I guess that, for Trump, firing Mueller is a calculated risk.  If he fires Mueller, there are considerable chances that he can save his presidency (the GOP on the Hill stonewalls, he doesn't lose any real support among his base, and they don't suffer severe House losses in the midterms, the NY investigations aren't high-powered enough, and the Dems don't come up with an appealing candidate in 2020).

And even that relies on a string of events being done by other people.