Question for people who support the Patriot Act

[MissCatholic]

Why is it fine for the powers at be to break into your home without your presence?

[MODU]

Why is it fine for the powers at be to break into your home without your presence?

Cops could break into your home without your presence before the Patriot Act.  Are you asking why it is ok for them to search your home without your presence?  That too they could do before the Patriot Act.  All they've done is redefine the law to make it easier for them to conduct terror sweeps, rather than be tied up in the court process before taking action.  All searches are done with advance approval.

[Jake]

If I'm a criminal/terrorist, I'd obviously oppose these types of laws. Since I am neither, I support them.

[bullmoose88]

If I'm a criminal/terrorist, I'd obviously oppose these types of laws. Since I am neither, I support them.

You're someone who isn't deemed a terrorist, or criminal by the government...

yet.

[CARLHAYDEN]

You make a good point which I think conservatives should ponder.

Suppose, Janet Reno were Attorney General.

She would use the 'patriot act' against those favor freedom, truth and justice.

So far the government has acted pretty moderately with its powers.

However, remember a sociopath like Reno could abuse those powers.

So, while we need to improve or intelligence operations to detect terrorists and have well trained and equiped forces to deal with terrorist, we do NOT need a police state!

[bullmoose88]

You make a good point which I think conservatives should ponder.

Suppose, Janet Reno were Attorney General.

She would use the 'patriot act' against those favor freedom, truth and justice.

So far the government has acted pretty moderately with its powers.

However, remember a sociopath like Reno could abuse those powers.

So, while we need to improve or intelligence operations to detect terrorists and have well trained and equiped forces to deal with terrorist, we do NOT need a police state!

Yeah...Its not like I think going after terrorists is a bad thing...I don't trust government...there are plenty of examples of good intentioned initiatives being misused by very terrible people.

As for Janet Reno...all I can think of is the Will Ferrell and Janet's Dance Party.

[MissCatholic]

You make a good point which I think conservatives should ponder.

Suppose, Janet Reno were Attorney General.

She would use the 'patriot act' against those favor freedom, truth and justice.

So far the government has acted pretty moderately with its powers.

However, remember a sociopath like Reno could abuse those powers.

So, while we need to improve or intelligence operations to detect terrorists and have well trained and equiped forces to deal with terrorist, we do NOT need a police state!

What is interesting is that 39 people read the thread and that only a very few bothered to reply as it is just a terrible law. Whether your Republican, democrat or support third parites i think we all agree that this law is a serious one that must be re-considered.

If this did happen before the patriot act i think what concerns alot of us is that it has been used on regular Americans. For instance, in Montana a FBI agent broke into someone's house and the owner shot him. The guy who shot him got arrested and thankfully the NRA bailed him out.

In North Carolina, a women came home from work to discover that all her anti-bush signs had been taken. She phoned the police and they told her that she wasn't allowed to display them as it affected the community. She went to the media and the signs were returned by the end of the week.

This is why people are concerned with it. If they can break into the typical American home then why can't it be you next?

I thank Jake, modu and bullmoose for making a case.

[Alcon]

You make a good point which I think conservatives should ponder.

Suppose, Janet Reno were Attorney General.

She would use the 'patriot act' against those favor freedom, truth and justice.

So far the government has acted pretty moderately with its powers.

However, remember a sociopath like Reno could abuse those powers.

So, while we need to improve or intelligence operations to detect terrorists and have well trained and equiped forces to deal with terrorist, we do NOT need a police state!

Yeah...Its not like I think going after terrorists is a bad thing...I don't trust government...there are plenty of examples of good intentioned initiatives being misused by very terrible people.

As for Janet Reno...all I can think of is the Will Ferrell and Janet's Dance Party.

Haha, Janet Reno is forever associated with that in my mind, too.

[bullmoose88]

You make a good point which I think conservatives should ponder.

Suppose, Janet Reno were Attorney General.

She would use the 'patriot act' against those favor freedom, truth and justice.

So far the government has acted pretty moderately with its powers.

However, remember a sociopath like Reno could abuse those powers.

So, while we need to improve or intelligence operations to detect terrorists and have well trained and equiped forces to deal with terrorist, we do NOT need a police state!

What is interesting is that 39 people read the thread and that only a very few bothered to reply as it is just a terrible law. Whether your Republican, democrat or support third parites i think we all agree that this law is a serious one that must be re-considered.

If this did happen before the patriot act i think what concerns alot of us is that it has been used on regular Americans. For instance, in Montana a FBI agent broke into someone's house and the owner shot him. The guy who shot him got arrested and thankfully the NRA bailed him out.

In North Carolina, a women came home from work to discover that all her anti-bush signs had been taken. She phoned the police and they told her that she wasn't allowed to display them as it affected the community. She went to the media and the signs were returned by the end of the week.

This is why people are concerned with it. If they can break into the typical American home then why can't it be you next?

I thank Jake, modu and bullmoose for making a case.

I actually didn't make a case for the patriot act. My little line was in response to Jake's argument.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Perhaps I was insufficently clear.

I find there are problems with the powers granted to the government in the so-called Patriot Act.

With Bush's first Attorney General, I little fear of abuse.

With the current Attorney General, I have some fear of abuse.

If someone like Janet Reno ever became Attorney General, I expect abuse.

We really need to amend the Patriot Act to remove the potential for such abuse.

[The Duke]

Janet Reno is an enemy of the Constitution, so I don't think its fair to say we should fear Reno with these new powers, since we should fear her with the old powers anyway.  Its like giving a pocket knife to a man with a shotgun.  He's already got more than he needs, what's the difference?

Just make sure that the people like Ashcroft, who actually follows the law, have the tools they need to legally defend the country.

And as MODU said, these aren't really new powers you're talking about, MC.

[MODU]

Whether your Republican, democrat or support third parites i think we all agree that this law is a serious one that must be re-considered.

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Easy with the spin there.  I didn't say that it needed to be reconsidered nor backed your position.  I just clarified the fact that these are not new powers.