What is "white"?

[Person Man]

What is "white"? Who is "white"? I being "white" or any other color even a thing? Is it biological? Cultural? Something different all together? Is there a way to determine if someone is "white"?

[Dr. Arch]

I'll post what I posted in the other thread.

In terms of determining what's "White," even by census standards, in Puerto Rico all you have to be is phenotypically White, while in the US, there's the "one drop rule," which basically makes it so that you're not technically White unless you have White ancestry down to 1/64. These variations are just two examples and vary wildly depending on the country from which you approach the concept of "race."

"Race" is just a term that we use to pack certain conglomerates of features that we believe that co-occur under one label, most of which are physical (eye color, nose type, hair type, hair color, etc.), but it may extend to ethnic and cultural practices (e.g., someone who's White phenotypically not being considered White because they're Hispanic). In other words, what is White to one person raised under one cultural context, may not be to another--depending on how restrictive that perspective is.

It is typical behavior for us human beings to identify a certain subset of features under one broader category. It is the way that we understand the world around us and the way language works (one of the universal aspects of language).

[Higgins]

Culturally and visually determined, at least as far as the US is concerned. If you're an ignorant bigot, would you notice any difference between a Greek and a Turk?

I have a (Skype) friend who "hates Muslims." His viewpoints are so extreme that he wishes, literally, that we would wipe out all Muslims by using nuclear weapons. He thinks they're basically animals - subhuman. Now, I decided one day to test him. I showed him pictures of Greek, Sicilian, and North African men and asked him what he thought they were. Muslims was his answer, and he expressed disgust at their "Arab" features.

[HAnnA MArin County]

Go to a Trump rally and you'll see.

[Jeffster]

White privilege doesn't exist, right guys?

[Helsinkian]

...while in the US, there's the "one drop rule," which basically makes it so that you're not technically White unless you have White ancestry down to 1/64.

Does anyone still actually believe in that? Elizabeth Warren claims to be 1/32 Native American but most people still would not call her a "person of color", right?

[Famous Mortimer]

...while in the US, there's the "one drop rule," which basically makes it so that you're not technically White unless you have White ancestry down to 1/64.

Does anyone still actually believe in that? Elizabeth Warren claims to be 1/32 Native American but most people still would not call her a "person of color", right?

No. No one believes this. I have no idea what this guy is talking about. There is no such law in existence.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Its the color of light, like when all colors are equally mixed.

[Dr. Arch]

...while in the US, there's the "one drop rule," which basically makes it so that you're not technically White unless you have White ancestry down to 1/64.

Does anyone still actually believe in that? Elizabeth Warren claims to be 1/32 Native American but most people still would not call her a "person of color", right?

No. No one believes this. I have no idea what this guy is talking about. There is no such law in existence.

I said "rule", not "law." Its effects still persist in our perceptions of race today, even though it's not overtly referred to anymore. See the concept of "mixed race," for instance. Here's a basic definition and history of it and an article reporting some results on recent research on it (2010).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/12/one-drop-rule-persists/

"The researchers found, for example, that one-quarter-Asian individuals are consistently considered more white than one-quarter-black individuals, despite the fact that African Americans and European Americans share a substantial degree of genetic heritage.

Using face-morphing technology that presented a series of faces ranging from 5 percent white to 95 percent white, they also found that individuals who were a 50-50 mix of two races, either black-white or Asian-white, were almost never identified by study participants as white. Furthermore, on average, black-white biracials had to be 68 percent white before they were perceived as white; the comparable figure for Asian-white biracials was 63 percent."

[Mr. Reactionary]

...while in the US, there's the "one drop rule," which basically makes it so that you're not technically White unless you have White ancestry down to 1/64.

Does anyone still actually believe in that? Elizabeth Warren claims to be 1/32 Native American but most people still would not call her a "person of color", right?

No. No one believes this. I have no idea what this guy is talking about. There is no such law in existence.

I said "rule", not "law." Its effects still persist in our perceptions of race today, even though it's not overtly referred to anymore. See the concept of "mixed race," for instance. Here's a basic definition and history of it and an article reporting some results on recent research on it (2010).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/12/one-drop-rule-persists/

"The researchers found, for example, that one-quarter-Asian individuals are consistently considered more white than one-quarter-black individuals, despite the fact that African Americans and European Americans share a substantial degree of genetic heritage.

Using face-morphing technology that presented a series of faces ranging from 5 percent white to 95 percent white, they also found that individuals who were a 50-50 mix of two races, either black-white or Asian-white, were almost never identified by study participants as white. Furthermore, on average, black-white biracials had to be 68 percent white before they were perceived as white; the comparable figure for Asian-white biracials was 63 percent."

Actually, in Virginia around 1900 the law did adopt the one drop rule and also conflated indians and blacks. This comically backfired on the drafters since many of the aristocrats had been claiming descent from john rolfe and pocahontas for centuries. Eventually they had to change it to 1 drop of non pocahontas blood.

[Crumpets]

One of the basic tenants of anthropology is that nothing "makes" a race or ethnic group, so much as they are defined by not being something else. To be white is to mean that they are not a perceivably different race to another white person, but are to someone considered non-white. Obviously this is totally arbitrary and involves some circular logic, hence why anthropologists are generally unhelpful in a practical sense.

[Technocracy Timmy]

It's more cultural. Marco Rubio would be mocked for being too pale skin on a beach in Huntington Beach by blonde hair blue eyed tanned white folk and that's not an exaggeration. Whiteness is largely cultural albeit a beige skin tone and more European looking features is generally the norm to be considered "White" in most places.

[ProudModerate2]

Go to a Trump rally and you'll see.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

It's more cultural. Marco Rubio would be mocked for being too pale skin on a beach in Huntington Beach by blonde hair blue eyed tanned white folk and that's not an exaggeration. Whiteness is largely cultural albeit a beige skin tone and more European looking features is generally the norm to be considered "White" in most places.

Marco Rubio appears to have very "black shaped" facial features. I'm surprised about why he's specifically considered a White Hispanic in the United States by the media and GOP political circles. I know that in Cuba he would be considered white, but the one-drop rule doesn't seem to apply to him.

[SNJ1985]

To me, the term includes any ethnic group that originated in Europe.

[pbrower2a]

...while in the US, there's the "one drop rule," which basically makes it so that you're not technically White unless you have White ancestry down to 1/64.

Does anyone still actually believe in that? Elizabeth Warren claims to be 1/32 Native American but most people still would not call her a "person of color", right?

Because of her extreme rejection of 'whiteness' I consider Rachel Dolezal black. She could still go back to being white -- but the dye job and the hair seal it for now.

I suspect that I have hidden African ancestors. Well hidden; indeed those are completely diluted if they exist. If I ever took one of those ancestry tests I might find something like 1/32 African ancestry. That would be a third-great grandparent. People were generally not secretive of their bloodlines in New England or Pennsylvania unless they had something to hide. An African ancestor was something to hide.  The surnames for which the ancestry is often hidden is "Leonard" (New England/New York) and "Gibson" (Pennsylvania).

But if the genetic test told me that I was 1/32 'black' would I consider myself black? No. Nothing about my upbringing is black. I have no African characteristics. I would not deny the ancestry; I just would not consider anything about me putting me in any African-American community even if I respect many African-American achievements and am unusually knowledgeable about 'Black History'. But that is a subset of American history, anyway.

 

[Technocracy Timmy]

Here's a picture of Barack Obama and his white maternal grandfather side by side:



The facial features of blacks, whites, Asians, Mestizos, etc. are much more malleable than people realize. This is why it gets difficult trying to discern who is and isn't "white" especially when it comes to mixed race people, mestizos, etc.

[Higgins]

Again, in America, it is a visual test. My grandfather has very dark skin-tone and Latin features (his youthful looks have been called a dead ringer for Lou Diamond Phillips) and when he was in the Army in the 1950s he was considered to be non-white. He was Italian. My other grandfather had very Black features with dark olive skin. He was also considered non-White.
http://imgur.com/a/yNPyS

Or my father, who was in his youth thought to be "Arabic" or "Hispanic", and compared in appearance to Saddam Hussein, and Pablo Escobar
http://imgur.com/a/kAcbE