43 Senators Sign on to Bill to Outlaw Support for Israel Boycotts

[JA]

Putting Americans in jail for saying bad things about a foreign government is treasonous IMO.

^^ This

It's not about allies; it's about right or wrong. Israel is an illegal colonialist settler state and must be abolished and replaced with a single state solution where Jews and Arabs can live in peace under secular government.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, couldn't a similar argument be made about other colonial states, such as the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand? They were formed through the displacement of native peoples, centuries of suppression, and still regularly abuse their native populations (not so much New Zealand, from what I can tell).

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

HPs. And I thought Wyden was supposed to be not be completely terrible on these sort of issues.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Ye gods. Regardless of what one thinks of Hamas or Israel this is grossly unconstitutional. This wouldn't pass legal muster if it similarly criminalized expressing support for Isis

I'm glad Sherrod Brown is apparently opposing this bill (and of course, disappointed that Portman is one of the lead sponsors in the Senate).

[Statilius the Epicurean]

It should not be illegal, as an individual, to hate or express hate towards others, or to make politically-motivated buying decisions in the free market. However, organized political boycotts like BDS are not mere hate, they hurt Israel and harm America's national interests. It's not about speech, and it's not only about Israel, since the bill applies to other friendly nations as well.

What products an individual chooses to buy or not is their business. Leading or participating in organized, politically-motivated boycotts is harmful and subversive to the national interest.

Using the "national interest" as a justification for limiting free speech is basically totalitarian. Government defines the national interest as something I verbally oppose = off to jail I go!

[7,052,770]

I would never support a boycott of Israel, but this is a dumb bill.

[Goldwater]

This bill is a blatantly unconstitutional violation of free speech, and I say that as someone who considers Israel to be one of our most important allies.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I would never support a boycott of Israel, but this is a dumb bill.

Basically this. I imagine once sponsors get a look at the actual content, it'll be drastically scaled back. A simple ban on government contracts or money for anyone involved with BDS would be more than fine.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It's not about allies; it's about right or wrong. Israel is an illegal colonialist settler state and must be abolished and replaced with a single state solution where Jews and Arabs can live in peace under secular government.

You can't "colonize" your own ancestral home. The Arabs in Israel have full rights, and the Palestinians have made very clear they have no interest in this kind of situation.

[Gass3268]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/720

From the Summary:

"The bill prohibits U.S. persons engaged in interstate or foreign commerce from:

requesting the imposition of any boycott by a foreign country against a country which is friendly to the United States; or
supporting any boycott fostered or imposed by an international organization, or requesting imposition of any such boycott, against Israel."

Jesus that is really vague and overbroad. Should not survive the courts if its passed.

My lord, the first line would have made South African Apartheid boycotts illegal.

[Santander]

My lord, the first line would have made South African Apartheid boycotts illegal.

The effects of the South Africa boycotts were debatable, at best.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't support BDS, but yeah this is a horrible bill. Of course even if passed it's not surviving five minutes in court.

[longtimelurker]

... in fact the exact opposite is true, with Jewish students being denied seats on student government unless they pledge their loyalty to BDS.

Where are you getting this info ?
Please post a link.

Here's a few off the top of my head:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/debate-on-a-jewish-student-at-ucla.html?mcubz=1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/01/26/infested-with-zionism-college-activists-create-alarm-over-alleged-anti-semitic-attacks/?utm_term=.ad1d644efb76

Here's one that targeted the college administration, because some of them were Jews:

https://www.algemeiner.com/2015/11/13/zionists-out-of-cuny-long-live-the-intifada-chanted-at-cuny-student-protest-at-hunter-administration-looks-other-way/

It took me all of 5 minutes to find these three examples.  I would expect that there are many more.

[TDAS04]

As someone who has admired Israel, and has considered the country the best respecter of human rights in the Mideast (for its own citizens anyway; the Palestinians deserve better), I'm nonetheless thinking--wtf?  The US should not be obliged to support the Israeli government blindly, nor should it be required that the US value the life of a single Israeli over multiple Palestinian lives.  

Antisemitism is real and ugly, and has been for millennia; I admire the Jews for their survival in the face of genocide and extermination attempts, and I support Israel's right to exist (alongside an independent Palestine).  I also admire the thriving society that Jews have built in Israel.  At the same time, labeling criticism of the Israeli government's heavy-handed policies towards the Palestinians (keeping them a stateless people, continued aggressive settlement building in the West Bank, indifference toward Palestinian civilian lives, etc.)  as "antisemitism" does a disservice to the fight against actual antisemitism.  In fact, the Christian fundamentalists--who today advocate the policy of blind support for Israel for Biblical literalist reasons--may claim to be the best friends of the Jews, but not long ago, they waged vicious antisemitic campaigns, and referred to Jews as "Christ-killers".

Obviously this bill is dangerous, and it seems quite unconstitutional.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Imagine if this was about Russia.

*drops the mic*

[Virginiá]

Imagine if this was about Russia.

*drops the mic*

Excellent. Now if you could just never pick it up again, we'll be all good.

[KingSweden]

I am no fan of BDS - but this is plainly unconstitutional

[Horus]

Really disappointed with Wyden here. The rest were expected.

[Famous Mortimer]

Putting Americans in jail for saying bad things about a foreign government is treasonous IMO.

^^ This

It's not about allies; it's about right or wrong. Israel is an illegal colonialist settler state and must be abolished and replaced with a single state solution where Jews and Arabs can live in peace under secular government.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, couldn't a similar argument be made about other colonial states, such as the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand? They were formed through the displacement of native peoples, centuries of suppression, and still regularly abuse their native populations (not so much New Zealand, from what I can tell).

The indigenous populations of the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand all already have full political rights (actually sometimes more political rights) in their countries.

Israel is different because indigenous Palestinians are explicitly denied political rights by the Israeli state.

That's a huge, obvious difference. These two situations really have nothing in common at all.

In fact, what the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have basically already is the equivalent of a "one state solution".

[rosin]

My lord, the first line would have made South African Apartheid boycotts illegal.

The effects of the South Africa boycotts were debatable, at best.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether supporting them should be legal.

[Coraxion]

Imagine if this was about Russia.

*drops the mic*

Congratulations. You somehow found a way to inject your butthurt about Sanders into this thread.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

People should be able to boycott whomever and whatever they want, period. This isn't about Israel, as much as it's about the principle/

[Pyro]

... in fact the exact opposite is true, with Jewish students being denied seats on student government unless they pledge their loyalty to BDS.

Where are you getting this info ?
Please post a link.

Here's a few off the top of my head:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/debate-on-a-jewish-student-at-ucla.html?mcubz=1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/01/26/infested-with-zionism-college-activists-create-alarm-over-alleged-anti-semitic-attacks/?utm_term=.ad1d644efb76

Here's one that targeted the college administration, because some of them were Jews:

https://www.algemeiner.com/2015/11/13/zionists-out-of-cuny-long-live-the-intifada-chanted-at-cuny-student-protest-at-hunter-administration-looks-other-way/

It took me all of 5 minutes to find these three examples.  I would expect that there are many more.

Protests against Israel are not anti-semitic.
One can criticize Israel and not be anti-semitic.
One can criticize Zionism and not be anti-semitic.
Anti-semitism is not a protest that points out the flaws in the current, abhorrent policies of Israel.

Anti-Jewishness has become exceedingly rampant in recent years, specifically from the far-right, and disallowing Jewish students from participating in government is indefensible. This derives from a line of fascist conspiracy of Jewish leaders that is a far separate phenomenon from BDS and the SJP.

[Badger]

Imagine if this was about Russia.

*drops the mic*

Excellent. Now if you could just never pick it up again, we'll be all good.

And Virginia wins the internet

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Imagine if this was about Russia.

*drops the mic*

Excellent. Now if you could just never pick it up again, we'll be all good.

And Virginia wins the internet

As usual