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Author Topic: Trump  (Read 1710 times)
Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2016, 09:53:00 AM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.
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Lyin' Steve
SteveMcQueen
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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2016, 11:13:59 AM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.
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Sbane
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2016, 03:59:21 PM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.
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Lyin' Steve
SteveMcQueen
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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2016, 04:06:57 PM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.

Translation:  I can't argue that he's racist but I still want to be angry.

It's not just racists who are opposed to illegal immigration and outraged every time an illegal immigrant is on the news for committing some horrible crime in our country, or think that building a wall and focusing on border security will help stop the flow of drugs into our country.  I disagree that his strategy was built around appealing to racists.  I would argue his strategy was to exploit the insecurities and concerns people have about these issues by proposing a simple solution to what he could then argue was the root cause.
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Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
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« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2016, 04:14:11 PM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Did a one-year-old baby brought to the country by their parents break the law?
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Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2016, 02:24:39 AM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.

Translation:  I can't argue that he's racist but I still want to be angry.

It's not just racists who are opposed to illegal immigration and outraged every time an illegal immigrant is on the news for committing some horrible crime in our country, or think that building a wall and focusing on border security will help stop the flow of drugs into our country.  I disagree that his strategy was built around appealing to racists.  I would argue his strategy was to exploit the insecurities and concerns people have about these issues by proposing a simple solution to what he could then argue was the root cause.

It doesn't really matter whether or not Trump is racist (although my guess is he is), his campaign certainly is. It remains to be seen how he pivots but his disgusting primary campaign is something that has to be impugned.

Opposing illegal immigration is not necessarily racist. Pretending like these people are bringing crime to this country when the facts don't back you up is racist. In the future I could see a campaign that wants to stop illegal immigration do so without being racist. It's actually not that hard to do. I don't give a crap Trump wants to stop illegal immigration or build a wall. I'm actually fine with both those things. It's the way he divides people that is the main issue.

Also I won't even go into his comments about Muslims. That shows something very, very troubling about him. He could take America down a very, very dark road. A road you just don't fully recover from as a country. Germany is a great country in today but the stain of what they did remains on their nation to this day.
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Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2016, 02:25:25 AM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.

Translation:  I can't argue that he's racist but I still want to be angry.

It's not just racists who are opposed to illegal immigration and outraged every time an illegal immigrant is on the news for committing some horrible crime in our country, or think that building a wall and focusing on border security will help stop the flow of drugs into our country.  I disagree that his strategy was built around appealing to racists.  I would argue his strategy was to exploit the insecurities and concerns people have about these issues by proposing a simple solution to what he could then argue was the root cause.

It doesn't really matter whether or not Trump is racist (although my guess is he is), his campaign certainly is. It remains to be seen how he pivots but his disgusting primary campaign is something that has to be impugned.

Opposing illegal immigration is not necessarily racist. Pretending like these people are bringing crime to this country when the facts don't back you up is racist. In the future I could see a campaign that wants to stop illegal immigration do so without being racist. It's actually not that hard to do. I don't give a crap Trump wants to stop illegal immigration or build a wall. I'm actually fine with both those things. It's the way he divides people that is the main issue.

Also I won't even go into his comments about Muslims. That shows something very, very troubling about him. He could take America down a very, very dark road. A road you just don't fully recover from as a country. Germany is a great country in today but the stain of what they did remains on their nation to this day.
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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2016, 02:26:49 AM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.

Translation:  I can't argue that he's racist but I still want to be angry.

It's not just racists who are opposed to illegal immigration and outraged every time an illegal immigrant is on the news for committing some horrible crime in our country, or think that building a wall and focusing on border security will help stop the flow of drugs into our country.  I disagree that his strategy was built around appealing to racists.  I would argue his strategy was to exploit the insecurities and concerns people have about these issues by proposing a simple solution to what he could then argue was the root cause.

It doesn't really matter whether or not Trump is racist (although my guess is he is), his campaign certainly is. It remains to be seen how he pivots but his disgusting primary campaign is something that has to be impugned.

Opposing illegal immigration is not necessarily racist. Pretending like these people are bringing crime to this country when the facts don't back you up is racist. In the future I could see a campaign that wants to stop illegal immigration do so without being racist. It's actually not that hard to do. I don't give a crap Trump wants to stop illegal immigration or build a wall. I'm actually fine with both those things. It's the way he divides people that is the main issue.

Also I won't even go into his comments about Muslims. That shows something very, very troubling about him. He could take America down a very, very dark road. A road you just don't fully recover from as a country. Germany is a great country today but the stain of what they did remains on their nation to this day.
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Sbane
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2016, 02:37:38 AM »

If he wants to put the sign up in his window, he should do it.  End of story.

Maybe. Why do it? He would just be asking for trouble.

That's exactly why he should do it.  Nobody should be intimidated out of free political expression in this country due to fear of violence.  It's disgusting that so many on the left are using weak, over-reaching excuses about desperately perceived race hate as an excuse to engage in violence and hate speech, and that this is being passively condoned by the party and the media rather than called out for what it is and strongly condemned as it should be.

Sure, why not? But if he wants to be really snappy, I have some more suggestions:

1) Move into an African-American neighborhood and hang some white hoods in front
2) Move into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and put up some Nazi flags
3) Move into an area with a good number of white supremacists and put up a Black Lives Matter sign.

There are many more creative options. Up to him. Smiley

Only #3 is really comparable.  I know HuffPo has been drilling it into your brain, but Trump isn't equivalent to the nazis or the KKK.  Saying you want to deport illegal immigrants, who happen to mostly be in a particular ethnic group, is not even close to equivalent to saying you want to deport all members of that ethnic group (as the media says), much less that you hate or even dislike people in that ethnic group (as people on Facebook say), much less that you want to commit violent acts or even murder or genocide against people in that ethnic group (the comparison you are making).

Try being a part of such ethnic group and participating in its community before you draw such judgements. This is a gross over-generalization of what Trump is proporting and completely ignores what he is representing. When people's friends and family members are referred to as "rapists, murderers" and that they're "bringing crime" by a presidential candidate with international headlines, he becomes more than just a hard-line politician who wants to have a strict immigration policy.

Not only is he treading on the foundation of our nation as a country of immigrants and being a hypocrite for being one of those job creators that enables illegal immigration to begin with, he has become a symbol for broad ignorance and proudly carries the flag of such. He represents all of the vile and nasty elements that many (BOTH CITIZENS AND NOT) in our communities have been fighting now for decades.

It's not so much what he proposes as what he symbolizes. That's what Nazi flags and KKK hoods are, symbols, and symbols mean different things to different people depending on their viewpoints.

Now, we're supposed to think twice about having a yard sign or bumper sticker that doesn't say Hillary Clinton? Come on!

And for the record, yes, Trump is guilty of over-generalizing when it comes to saying all illegal immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers, but folks should think twice before believing that there's not a problem, because clearly there is.

Are they statistically more likely to commit crimes than any other group? Of course some illegals are going to be criminals, or do stupid things like drink and drive and cause accidents..etc.

In answer to your question, I'd say "yes", based on the fact that 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law. See, many like you continue to conveniently ignore one very simple fact: there is a reason why the people we're talking about are called illegal immigrants, and that is that they have broken the law. We should either enforce our laws or change them; ignoring them is simply unacceptable.

Haha so basically you got nothing. Yes, illegal immigrants did break the law but after they come into the country they are more law abiding than other American residents. I'm glad you agree with me on that.

There's a big difference between Trump saying something false and Trump being a racist.  Sure, Mexico isn't actually sending criminals across the border, and maybe illegal immigrants aren't committing more crimes than other groups as he claims.  But that just makes him a liar.

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.

Translation:  I can't argue that he's racist but I still want to be angry.

It's not just racists who are opposed to illegal immigration and outraged every time an illegal immigrant is on the news for committing some horrible crime in our country, or think that building a wall and focusing on border security will help stop the flow of drugs into our country.  I disagree that his strategy was built around appealing to racists.  I would argue his strategy was to exploit the insecurities and concerns people have about these issues by proposing a simple solution to what he could then argue was the root cause.

It doesn't really matter whether or not Trump is personally racist (though I think he is), he has run a racist campaign. And whether or not he changes that in the general, his primary campaign is not something that should be forgiven.

It's not that being anti-illegal immigrant makes someone a racist. It's claiming that they bring crime to this country when the data suggests otherwise. He is either racist himself or is acting in that matter to gain votes from racists. I don't care that he wants to stop illegal immigration or build a wall. I would be fine with either of those things. I just vehemently oppose how he vilifies and lies about immigrants while going about that. That sort of divisiveness just isn't necessary to implement a policy to reduce the flow of illegal immigration.

And I won't even talk about what he said about Muslims, which bothers me even more. Where exactly is he going to go with that if there is another terrorist attack if he is president. Are we talking internment camps? While I am not Muslim, I just cannot support that today because I may be next tomorrow.
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Santander
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2016, 04:48:07 AM »

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.
What about Nixon's silent majority and law and order politics? What about Reagan talking about "strapping young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps? What about Cruz railing against "New York values," which supposedly focus on money and the media? What about the Democrats' "white privilege" and other racially divisive attacks? Race-baiting in politics is as American as apple pie. Just because Trump doesn't use dog whistles doesn't make him any worse than what the Democrats and Republicans have been doing for decades.
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Sbane
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« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2016, 10:10:52 AM »

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.
What about Nixon's silent majority and law and order politics? What about Reagan talking about "strapping young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps? What about Cruz railing against "New York values," which supposedly focus on money and the media? What about the Democrats' "white privilege" and other racially divisive attacks? Race-baiting in politics is as American as apple pie. Just because Trump doesn't use dog whistles doesn't make him any worse than what the Democrats and Republicans have been doing for decades.

You only have to see the protests to realize what Trump is doing is worse. In any case, I think the real X factor with Trump versus the others your mentioned is that Trump has a fascist side to him people can't trust. It's not just the rhetoric. People actually think he is capable of unleashing a gestapo style force that pulls over every brown person and checks their papers. Or he seized the property of all Muslims and put them in concentration camps. People like Ted Cruz would follow the constitution and respect the Supreme Court no matter what they say on the campaign trail. The same can't be said for Trump. He could be the end of the United States of America.
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2016, 11:15:39 AM »

Trump is deliberately lying by employing racial tropes to inflame the nation and gain votes. Although it is not very effective in the general, it let him succeed in the primary. Disgusting campaigns like his cannot stand. It divides Americans and causes the sort of conflict you are seeing now at his rallies. Whether or not he is racist is besides the point, his strategy in the primaries was to create racial tension and win the votes of racists who believe this sh**t to be true.
What about Nixon's silent majority and law and order politics? What about Reagan talking about "strapping young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps? What about Cruz railing against "New York values," which supposedly focus on money and the media? What about the Democrats' "white privilege" and other racially divisive attacks? Race-baiting in politics is as American as apple pie. Just because Trump doesn't use dog whistles doesn't make him any worse than what the Democrats and Republicans have been doing for decades.

You only have to see the protests to realize what Trump is doing is worse. In any case, I think the real X factor with Trump versus the others your mentioned is that Trump has a fascist side to him people can't trust. It's not just the rhetoric. People actually think he is capable of unleashing a gestapo style force that pulls over every brown person and checks their papers. Or he seized the property of all Muslims and put them in concentration camps. People like Ted Cruz would follow the constitution and respect the Supreme Court no matter what they say on the campaign trail. The same can't be said for Trump. He could be the end of the United States of America.

So Trump is worse because stupid people believe he's worse.  k.
I believe Hillary Clinton is Hitler's reincarnation and that she'll commit a genocide of all the jews.
She should be ashamed of herself for running such a racially divisive campaign that a stupid person like me can believe something like that!
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Sbane
sbane
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« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2016, 08:40:39 PM »

Clinton isn't the one proposing unconstitutional things like killing combatants families, excluding people of a certain religion etc.
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