Scientists agree: guns make society less safe
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 06, 2024, 08:51:38 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Scientists agree: guns make society less safe
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Scientists agree: guns make society less safe  (Read 1584 times)
RFayette 🇻🇦
RFayette
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,962
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 02:32:58 PM »

As far as suicide goes, it's much easier for suicidal ideation to be followed through on if there's a gun in close proximity. If you get the idea in your head that you're going to kill yourself and it only takes you 2 minutes to go to the closet and get your gun, it's going to be much more likely that you'll follow through than if you have to get your shoes on, get in your car, go to the ATM, get to a vendor, etc.

I actually agree with this.

The "heat of the moment" is far more likely to be acted on if one has a gun in close proximity. 

I fully concede that easy availability of guns can increase the risk of  suicide or accidental violence, though, as economists Levitt and Dubner found in Freakonomics, the safety danger of a loaded gun in a house is far less than that of a swimming pool. 

My premise is that the premise "more guns = more violent crime" is not supported by the data.  That's all.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,366


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2015, 02:43:15 PM »

I'm against American gun laws, but this whole thing look like someone have asked scientists their opinion on gun laws and it's not based on any kind of scientific research. That may be that the article are just badly written.

So as I read it, a bunch of "scientists" (what kind of scientists?) have the political opinion that USA should have more gun control. They may be correct, but that's not a "scientific consensus". Also it's a survey of 150 people, that's really few people to build any kind of "scientific consensus" on, even if they're scientist inside the correct field (which would be...?).

All in all this article read like when global warming deniers find a bunch of "scientists" who agree with them, and make big deal out of it.
Logged
bedstuy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,526


Political Matrix
E: -1.16, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2015, 03:14:41 PM »

Taking data from two different sources with completely different methods of obtaining their data is inherently unreliable, especially when one has a bias towards undercounting and the other towards overcounting and moreover they don't compare incidents of equivalent severity.  In short, the comparison you make relies upon junk statistics of the sort only a university social sciences professor could love.
I'm curious as to why you think that the Bureau of Justice Statistics is biased towards undercounting (I'm not saying that it isn't, just wondering why you think it is).

Even if the data has some inaccuracies (as does most of this sort), do you really believe that they're extreme enough to negate the considerable gap between the two bars on the chart, or to provide credence to Bedstuy's assertion that almost no firearms are used to prevent crime?

What does that graph show?  I don't know what a DGU is.  So, it's utterly meaningless.

And, that's not what I said.  I think police deter some crime.  I think security guards and prison guards deter some crime.

But, if we're talking about situations where a private citizen with a conceal carry permit fends off an mugger with a gun, shoots someone in self-defense, shoots someone to defend a family member or innocent third party, stops a robbery by pulling out a gun, etc, that's rare.

On top of that, when people have guns, they take risks they wouldn't otherwise.  They pick fights with violent people.  They approach "suspicious" black teens in their neighborhood.  They go into an opposing gang's territory.  Because, they have that security of where they can always pull out their gun.  And, maybe there is a potential deterrence, if that person gets into a bad situation.  But, maybe they wouldn't have needed the gun, if they didn't have the puffed up ego of a gun owner.  Unfortunately, dumb, angry with guns tend to find reasons to whip them out. 
Logged
DemPGH
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,755
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2015, 05:44:07 PM »

There might be a couple of fallacies at play here: "Scientists say!!!" which is a kind of Appeal To Authority, because the question doesn't concern science, and also a kind of Circular Reasoning: Guns kill, so guns are bad. Well, so are any number of other things.

Having said that, I'm in favor of a lot of gun control, but arguing that guns inherently make society less safe does not hold water for me.
Logged
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,876
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2015, 02:46:55 PM »

1. The issue is not guns. It's handguns. Hunting weapons are much more difficult to use in crimes (other than poaching) because they are nearly impossible to conceal. Sport hunters are probably below-average in crimes committed.

As a defense against crime, long guns are even more fearsome than the less-obvious handguns.

Handguns are better suited to robbery than the long guns usually chosen for hunting.

2. Handguns are often stolen -- and used in crimes including armed robbery and rape. Every armed robbery is a potential murder.     
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.223 seconds with 12 queries.