County Name Etymologies by Language Maps
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snowguy716
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« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2013, 03:48:23 AM »
« edited: April 09, 2013, 03:51:48 AM by Snowguy716 »

BLESS

But I propose you create a new "Schoolcraft" category, because that guy was on crack.

I agree. None of the places he named got actual Native American names, so labeling them as such would be incorrect. Wikipedia lists Alcona, Allegan, Alpena, Arenac, Iosco, Kalkaska, Leelanau, Oscoda and Tuscola Counties in Michigan as Schoolcraftian creations, though there is some contention on Iosco and Kalkaska.
That's funny.. I live like 4 miles from Lake Plantagenet, the source of the Schoolcraft River.  The Schoolcraft and Mississippi Rivers meet like a half mile from my house in Carr Lake.

Itasca is also not Native American, but a Schoolcraft creation that smashes the end of the Latin word for true, veritas, and the beginning of the Latin word for head, caput

Therefore you can see the real meaning of the word, meaning "True head", referring to the lake from which the headwaters of the Mississippi flow.

And for one picture:


That little babbling brook is the mighty Mississippi a couple hundred feet from the actual headwaters.  People who have seen the river near Memphis or New Orleans will get a kick out of that.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2013, 04:25:14 AM »

     The topic name is slightly misleading. Some of these distinct categories aren't really languages, like Scots-Irish and Swiss. I suppose it is an acceptable compromise for the sake of greater detail.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2013, 06:08:11 AM »

I'd give them their own category, like they have on many demographic maps.
Utterly nonsensical on an etymological map, though.

(Columbus is a relatinized form of an Italian name based on an ancient Latin root. So yeah, Latin.)

Agree with Ilverin on Schoolcraft, of course.

I did think of doing something similar once; though I wouldn't have distinguished Euro names by country of origin but rather by what kind of person (or a place in Europe) they were named for.
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Benj
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« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2013, 07:38:12 AM »

Another nitpick... Cape May County, NJ should be Dutch. It was named for Cornelius May (/Mey/Meij), a Dutch explorer.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2013, 03:11:35 PM »

Christopher Columbus was Italian, so shouldn't counties named after him be Italian not Spanish?

Very interesting map though!

But it's a Latin version of his name.

So... not Spanish either way? Tongue

That's why I hate the term "Latino" so much. We Italians are the real Latins, not Hispanics.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2013, 11:34:18 PM »

Not to nitpick, but Reagan County, in West Texas, is colored as an English-language name when it should be Irish.
Scotch-Irish, as would be Jackson and Polk (if Roosevelt is considered Dutch).  Houston is Scottish.  Erath might be German.

I was referring to the linguistic origin of the name itself, not the ethnicity/nationality of the person who is the namesake. Also, Reagan County was named after John H. Reagan, a senator and governor of Texas, not after President Reagan.
John H. Reagan was born in Tennessee, which is why I surmised he was Scotch-Irish.

He was never governor.  He was Postmaster General of the Confederacy.




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Franknburger
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« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2013, 04:59:33 PM »

A few questions/ corrections:

NY:
Can't really make out which colour you gave to the Bronx. There is some debate on-going whether Jonas Bronck, who lent the territory his name, was Danish or Swedish, but your map seems to use neither of the two colourings.

Nassau is originally a German town and county seats. The Counts of Nassau played a major role in the Dutch Revolution and thus acquired the Dutch throne (while continuing being counts of their traditional German county).

Orange: Same story, just the maternal side from the Principality of Orange in Burgundy, France. Since both traditional territories were kept in possession, the Dutch Royal family adopted the name Orange-Nassau.

[Along the same lines, it may be debated whether Cumberland, NJ and Northumberland, PA should not actually be labelled Danish - the Cimbri / Cumbers came from the Cimbrian peninsula, today better known as Jutland. That would also make Sussex and Essex German (Dutch?) names. Moreover, 'English' place names ending on "-chester" /-"caster" are originally Latin (castrum) and typically indicate towns that were founded / fortified under Roman rule. But we are probably going too far back into European history here Smiley.]

PA: I would have thought Luzerne to be derived from the Swiss town of that name, while Carbon is originally a Latin word that has been adopted by various European languages, including (but not limited to) English. The same applies to the various "Mineral" counties across the US.

VI:
[ur=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Albemarlel]Albermarle[/url] is the Latinised form "alba Maria" of the French town of Aumale in Normandy, and a title created after the Norman conquest of England. So it is either French or Latin, but not English.

Amelia should be German, as this is were Princess Amelia was born and spent her early childhood (note that both her parents were German, even though her grandfather had been elected British King).

Augusta: Same story. Named after Augusta of Saxe-Gotha, mother of George III - unless you prefer to colour it Latin, which is where that first name is originally coming from (Emperor Augustus).

Brunswick is definitely German. The city lent its name to the Duchy of Brunswick-Luneburg, one of the territories of the House of Hannover (British Royal family).

Caroline; Another of these "British king with German roots marries German wife" stories, Here it is Caroline von Ansbach (south-west of Nurmeberg).

Charlotte: And the next one, Charlotte von Mecklenburg-Strelitz.

Fluvanna; That's a tricky one. Fluvius Anna (Anne`s river), in honour of Queen Anne. I would tend towards Latin.

Frederick: And the "Germans on the English throne" story continues. Born & raised in Hannover, two Germany-born parents (one of them Caroline von Ansbach from above). Even though he became Prince of Wales, I'd go for German.

HanoverSeems you even missed this one. Of course named after the German city, seat of the Kingdom of Hannover,  and thus lending its name to the British Royal House of Hannover (renamed into Windsor during WW I).

Henrico: Another tricky one. Originally Henricus, latinised form of (Prince) Henry. I would tend Latin.

King George: The one who started all this name mess. Born as Georg Ludwig König von Hannover, he was elected British King at the age of 54. The man was definitely German, 'King" is definitely English. Throw a coin ...

King William: While we are at it. William of Orange-Nassau, Dutch Governor, elected as British King. That makes four options ...

Loudon is, according to Wikipedia, a parish in Scotland, which lent its names to the Earls of Loudon, in honour of one of whom the county was named.  That would make it Scottish.

Lunenburg: German city. See Brunswick for the remainder of the story. [I just realise you have got this one right]

Mecklenburg Of course German. Named after the Grand-Duchy on the Baltic Sea, now part of the German State of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

Orange; French - as the NY county with the same name.

Patrick: According to Wikipedia named after Patrick Henry. Since his father was from Aberdeenshire, it should probably be Scottish.

Pittsylvania: Pitt was an Englishman, Sylvania is Latin. Have you already thrown a coin?
Same with Spotsylvania, though I would definitely go Latin here, as they only took Mr. Spotswood's first syllable (sylva means forest / woods in Latin).

Prince George of Denmark was from - yes - Denmark. Another coin throw ..

Richmond should have French roots, unless I have overlooked something.

Smyth should be Irish, if Wikipedia is to be trusted.

---
I thought this would be a quick exercise until I came upon the whole Royal mess in Virginia. I stop here for the time being, waiting for your comments.

 
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Franknburger
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 05:52:26 PM »

So, while I am at it, the Virginian cities. It's quite difficult to distinguish their colours on the map, so apologies in advance if I mention any city that you already had coloured correctly:

Alexandria: Should it have been named after the city on the Egyptian coast, that one was founded by and named after Alexander the Great, which makes the name Greek.

Charlottesville Coin throw between German (Charlotte von Mecklenburg-Strelitz) and French (-ville).

Danville Oh sh..t. Located on the Dan River, which may either be an American Indian name, or - so goes the founding legend on the Wikipedia page - was named in allegiance to the River Dan mentioned in the Bible. Plus -ville ..

Fredericksburg Hannover-born Prince Frederick, plus the German '-burg' (borough, castle). Easily German.

Galax is probably Latin.

Harrisonburg English person, German ending. Should be treated as the '-sylvanias'. Same for Lynchburg.

Petersburg Apparently not named after the Russian city, but after a nearby trading post known as "Peter's Point" in line with the owner's first name. For the "-burg" ending, I would colour it German.

Virginia Beach: Virginia is Latin, Beach is English. Great!

Williamsburg; William of Orange-Nassau, Dutch-born King of England, and the ending "-burg". Just when you think it cannot get worse....
In all seriousness: There probably should be a separate "American" colouring for all those place names that could not have developed anywhere else in the world - the -sylvanias, -villes, -burgs etc.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2013, 01:13:56 PM »

[Along the same lines, it may be debated whether Cumberland, NJ and Northumberland, PA should not actually be labelled Danish - the Cimbri / Cumbers came from the Cimbrian peninsula, today better known as Jutland.
Uh, no. Cumberland has nothing whatsoever to do with that (no more than Deutsch with Teutonic), it's simply an Anglicization of Cymru. I voted Welsh.
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And you'd have thought wrong. It's named for France's first Ambassador to the United States, and the place the family name derives from is a tiny hamlet in Normandy, not a city in Switzerland.

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Uh, they took his English name and only half-translated it to Latin, so a much better case for 'English' than 'Pittsylvania', no?

Alexandria: Should it have been named after the city on the Egyptian coast, that one was founded by and named after Alexander the Great, which makes the name Greek.
Named for a local planter family Alexander... though of course the name, though as English as cricket and rotten teeth (it's in the top 300 of English surnames),  is still "originally" Greek anyways.
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Sure the -burg ending wasn't adopted in in-cheek reference to the Russian city? That is certainly the case with Petersburg AK (where the early settler called Peter was a Norwegian...) of course the Russian city's name is German anyways, hence why it got changed to Petrograd during WWI.
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Franknburger
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« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 07:15:01 PM »

Somebody is reading and commenting, and this is fun, so let's continue:

NC:
Alamance: This starts already good. Named for the Battle of Alamance at a local creek with that name. About the creek name's origin, they are two conflicting legends: One links it to a native American word for 'mud', the other one to early German settlers from the upper Rhine that wanted to honour their Alemannic roots, The map has it as native American, as it is anyway a coin throw, its fine for me if it stays this way.

Beaufort sounds pretty French to me ..

Brunswick should of course be German, see the VA notes

Burke: According to Wikipedia, Mr. Thomas Burke was born in Galway, Ireland.

Cabarrus was born in France (which is about the only thing Wikipedia reports about him).

Cleveland Apparently not named after the German region around the town of Kleve (northern Rhineland, close to the Dutch border), but after Benjamin Cleveland, so English is probably o.k.

Graham: As per Wikipedia, William Graham had Scotch-Irish roots.

Granville: English politician but old Norman nobility, The name is French enough to give that colour more than a thought ..

Harnett: If this site is to be trusted, his father was Irish.

Martin As Josiah Martin was born in Dublin, this should probably be Irish.

McDowell sounds pretty Scottish to me.

Mecklenburg: had that already. German.

Montgomery While the name sounds quite French, Richard Montgomery was born and raised in Ireland.

Nash Welsh parents.

New Hanover; German, of course.

Orange: You made it Dutch as it was named in honour of infant William V of Orange. But the name itself is French (see my previous post for NY).

Rutherford Griffith Rutherford was born in Ireland.

Transylvania Can't really make out the colour. Is it Latin, as it should be?

Yancey This page (no idea how trustworthy it is) says Bartlett Yancey was of Welsh extraction.
 
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Franknburger
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« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 08:12:53 PM »

On to South Carolina:

(Unless stated otherwise, I always refer to the information in the Wikipedia county article, and linked articles on the name patron, when available).

Anderson Both parents immigrated from Ireland.

Bamberg; German. Named after General Marion Francis Bamberg, whose ancestor had been sent by the Prussian King Frederick II (the Great) to inspect the life of German colonists in America, and decided to stay. that ancestor originated from the German city of the same name (north of Nuremberg).

Calhoun Irish

Dillon Irish

Florence Might go as Italian (but I thought Luzerne to be Swiss as well).

Horry French Huguenot parents, says this page

Laurens Huguenot, says the German Wikipedia

Orangeburg; Dutch (for the ruling family), French (for the name-giving town), German (for the -burg) - but definitely not English

Pickens Andrew Pickens was Scotch-Irish

Spartanburg Shouldn't it be either Greek, or German (for the -burg)? I really think the map needs an additional "American" colouring for all such names ...

Sumter Thomas Sumter was the son of a Welsh immigrant.

Williamsburg Dutch (William of Orange), or German (-burg)
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2013, 12:51:40 PM »


Burke: According to Wikipedia, Mr. Thomas Burke was born in Galway, Ireland.
No matter where this specific Burke was born, it is certainly very much an Irish name.

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"Cleveland" has only ever denoted the area of that name in England, in German or English (and people and places named for it, and places named for people named for it). The historic territory around Cleves (english) / Cleve (older German spelling) / Kleve (modern German spelling) / Kleef (Dutch) is the "K/Cleverland". Of course it's the same Germanic root in there: Cleveland is the land of cliffs and Kleve is the town on the cliff.

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Well in that case, you can't have Scotch-Irish. There are no 'Scotch-Irish' names (though actually, there are a very few specifically Ulster protestant spellings of names. Such as "Cobain".) Graham would be Scottish... though of course, there would also be rather a large number of names that are common to Irish and Scottish.

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But the surname is Germanic. Grin (It derives from the personal name, Arnold. Which was only brought to the British Isles by the Norman conquest.)

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McDowall is Scottish. Though it occurs among Scots as well, the spelling with "e" is the Irish spelling. Grin

This really needs a fixed standard... is it the language the name is originally from? or the place the person it's named for (or their immigrant ancestor) came from?
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2013, 01:19:25 PM »

I would have expected much more German on the map.
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Franknburger
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« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2013, 08:38:03 PM »

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Yep. Moreover, after having gone through a number of states, I start to wonder whether the whole concept (as great as it appeared initially, and as much as I appreciate the work that has gone into the map) in not somehow flawed.

Essentially, US county names can be grouped according to two categories:

a.) Linguistically - that would be primarily names given under British colonial rule / US rule, plus names that were adopted from American Indians, the Spanish, and the French (Mississippi/ Great Lakes region).

b.) Semantically: You have
- descriptive names (e.g. Summit, Highland),
- names given in honour of historic personalities (Columbia, Washington, Humboldt, etc.),
- names relating to the old homeland (Essex, Cumberland, Plymouth, Switzerland),
- those referring to early settlers / local notables,

plus a few exotic other cases (a bit of botanic here and there, biblical references, etc.).

Trying to combine both categories within one map brings about numerous problems, with those I have listed so far only being the tip of the iceberg. Take, e.g. St. Joseph, IN: Is this Latin (for the St.), Hebrew (for Joseph), or French. The same goes for a lot of Spanish names like Santa Barbara.

So, the first rule that I think is needed would be giving priority to the linguistic origin, which is quite interesting to depict.

The British colonial & US names, which are the majority, may be split up further. That's rather easy for descriptive and 'old homeland' names, the biblical stuff (Hebrew) and plants / "carbon" / "mineral" (should all be Latin). With the persons, it gets pretty tedious and requires quite some digging in the individual's ancestry. Unless we are clearly talking about a recent immigrant, I would propose to add an "American" category which, among others, would include all former presidents and those name patrons that had been resident in the US for several generations ('American' names would also include the '-sylvanias:, -villes, etc.).

That leaves us with a few residual problem cases:
- Spanish and French notabilities: They should get a different colouring, to distinguish such "American" names from the names that were adapted from previous rulers / explorers.
- Honourable names relating to a territory rather than a person (the whole Orange / Mecklenburg stuff): I'd propose a linguistic approach here, so Orange is French ('American' colouring), unless relating to the fruit, etc.
-  British noblemen of Norman descent (Glenville etc.): Any proposals?

Last but not least a few other mistakes I have come across in a unsystematic scan of other states:

Delta, TX is Greek,
Kleberg, TX is German,
Jasper, TX/IN/IA is German (otherwise done correctly, these ones were probably overlooked)
Alpine, CA is Latin, as is Imperial CA
Paulding (several states) had apparently Dutch ancestry, but should probably anyway be coloured 'American'.
Stark, IN should be Irish
Vanderburgh,IN sounds pretty Dutch to me (unless made 'American')
Vermillion, IN/IL is most likely French
Becker, MN sounds pretty German
Superior,MN (relating to the lake) should be French- they assigned the lake that name
Norman. MN is of course Norwegian and relates to their settlement there
Florence, WI: Named after Florence Julst, the first woman settling there. The name sounds pretty Dutch, and she was Mennonite ..
Portage, WI (and several other states) In that part of the US, I am pretty sure that the name was first used by the French
Calhoun, IA Irish
Dallas, TX/IA plus probably others Scottish (if not American)
Floyd, IA and elsewhere Welsh
Bollinger, MO, That last name, and the fact that his father's first name was "Heinrich" make me pretty sure he had German ancestry ..
Knox (various states) Scotch-Irish
Schuyler, MO Dutch
Reno, KS & probably elsewhere: French (anglicised from Renault)
Republic KS & probably elsewhere: should be Latin
Custer, NE & elsewhere: German (renamed from "Küster").
Hettinger,ND: Alsatian, but for the name, and as he was President of the German Insurance Company in Freeport, IL, I would colour him German
Stutsman, ND German
Traill, ND Scottish (via Canada)
Fallon, MT Named after Benjamin O'Fallon, which would be reason enough for me to make it Irish. He was Federal Native American Agent, but - with that name - most likely not Native American himself.
Petroleum, MT should be Latin
Prairie, AK and possibly elsewhere: This is a French word borrowed by (American) English
St. Francis, AK The river was named by the French.
Ascension, LA Should probably be French (Catholic church, Louisiana). Same with St.Charles & St. Helena
Cameron, LA Scottish
Sabine, LA Spanish (Rio de Sabinas)
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2013, 07:35:37 AM »

Fallon, MT Named after Benjamin O'Fallon, which would be reason enough for me to make it Irish. He was Federal Native American Agent, but - with that name - most likely not Native American himself.
I don't think there ever were any Native American Indian Agents. Maybe a couple of Metis. The job was abolished decades before the Bureau of Indian Affairs thought of recruiting Natives.
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wertyu
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« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2015, 10:32:47 AM »

I changed Colbert County, Alabama. Also, there is some dispute about St. Clair County, MI; some claim it was named after Arthur St. Clair, a Scot.
who have a french name
to see where come from the french words or name you have to fallow the phonetic rules of the french language who is a phonetic language
ai the sound and already only the wrightings exist only in french and come from the french
in any langage same with a majority of any english words with more 2 syllabes
to see why the french can understand the word langue in language and how by deduction they can understand how they creats from the latin the word linguistic you have to speak french
and if you want to know why there is only the american and anglo dictionnaries who have no  etymology before or why the word etymology have a y at the end after the 17 th century only in england Wink or why the etymology we found now in anglo dictionnaries have no rules and why any universities of the anglo word present a true explication who is knew all over the world ( tokyo and seul research centers of korean and japanese are formated by french but  the asians searchers know why ,,,,)
 come in a french university not classify in the shanguai american list ( who have the benefit to make laugh all the universitaries all over the world already americans to north koreans .... no comment  )
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wertyu
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« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2015, 10:35:02 AM »

I changed Colbert County, Alabama. Also, there is some dispute about St. Clair County, MI; some claim it was named after Arthur St. Clair, a Scot.
if an universitaries is asking if colbert is french or scotish you can be only a north american i think
from a chinese
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wertyu
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« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2015, 10:37:15 AM »

I would have expected much more German on the map.
I changed Colbert County, Alabama. Also, there is some dispute about St. Clair County, MI; some claim it was named after Arthur St. Clair, a Scot.
if you make this sound when you say in in linguistic is because it a little deformation of the french phonetics rules
if you say an in semantic it because you are respceting clearly the french phonetics rules
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Gustaf
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« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2015, 04:22:17 PM »

How would you credibly tell apart Swedish, Danish and Norwegian in this context? Especially the latter.
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