Ronald Reagan vs. Margaret Thatcher

[Antonio the Sixth]

Reagan by far.

But Thatcher is farther left and didn't randomly invade Grenada, and she certainly didn't sabotage any peace talks to get into power.

I'm not sure by what measure Thatcher would be "farther left" - she just happened to lead a country with a much more developed redistribution system, so she had more to work with. But she did much more damage to UK than Reagan did to America, and her neoliberalism was much more deep-rooted and articulate. Also, while Reagan was a hopeless buffoon with ridiculous ideas and policies, he doesn't strike me as a downright evil person like Thatcher.

Thatcher wasn't an actor either. She told it as she saw it. She's just Barry Goldwater with a mix of Richard Nixon's paranoia in comparison.

She's a principled one, or moreso far as I can tell.

That alone beats The Gipper and his ingenuine and pandering demeanor.

@CrabCake: That makes it worse, not better.

I'd take a phony, affable simpleton with vague ideas of "guvment=bad" and "better dead than red" any day over a shrewd, ruthless and passionate crusader of neoliberalism.

[Goldwater]

Though choice. I seem to remember somebody saying that Thatcher was pro-choice, which seems to be the only major issue they disagree on, so I'll go with her.

[Earthling]

Thatcher.

As much as I dislike her policies and her character, I can respect her political abilities. At least with Thatcher I get the idea that she knew what she was doing, even if it left the UK in shambles. Reagan was still an actor playing the role of president. He took credit for the hard work of others.

[TheElectoralBoobyPrize]

Reagan by far.

But Thatcher is farther left and didn't randomly invade Grenada, and she certainly didn't sabotage any peace talks to get into power.

That didn't happen with Nixon and it didn't happen with Reagan. Try harder.

Obviously Thatcher.

Isn't Nixon pretty much established fact by this point:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/yes-nixon-scuttled-the-vietnam-peace-talks-107623.html#.VNpa3fnF-So

Regardless of whether either man (or any of their subordinates) is guilty, the evidence of Nixon's wrongdoing seems much more compelling. The claims against Reagan seem more like conspiracy theory crap...akin to claiming FDR had advance knowledge of Pearl Harbor.

As for the question, they're both pretty awesome. They had different strengths and weaknesses, so I'll just say it's a tie.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Reagan is far more beloved in his homeland, where as Thatcher is one of the most despised people in the history of the UK.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Though choice. I seem to remember somebody saying that Thatcher was pro-choice, which seems to be the only major issue they disagree on, so I'll go with her.

Thatcher was more of what we would call a social liberal. I think it was Politicus who pointed (correctly, in my view) that Thatcher was much more of a liberal (classical, neo-, whathaveyou) than a conservative (upholding tradition and so on). This is evidenced not only on abortion, but how she viewed other issues such as divorce. She claimed it wasn't government's job to address societal/social/moral/whatever issues, which is much more in line with "classical" liberalism than conservatism, which would most definitely work to uphold what it considered tradition.

That's just my take, anyway.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If Thatcher was so 'socially liberal' why did her government pass homophobic legislation?

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

literally suicide.

[Hatman 🍁]

I literally thought of this question the other day and wondered what the forum would think. I think I decided I'd pick Reagan because Thatcher is more of an ideologue.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

If Thatcher was so 'socially liberal' why did her government pass homophobic legislation?

Because 80's.

[Mr. Illini]

Is Hitler an option?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

If forced to pick, Reagan. He was much more pliable by those around him.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

Can I vote for both?

If forced to choose, Reagan.

[Kushahontas]

Reagan by far.

But Thatcher is farther left and didn't randomly invade Grenada, and she certainly didn't sabotage any peace talks to get into power.

I'm not sure by what measure Thatcher would be "farther left" - she just happened to lead a country with a much more developed redistribution system, so she had more to work with. But she did much more damage to UK than Reagan did to America, and her neoliberalism was much more deep-rooted and articulate. Also, while Reagan was a hopeless buffoon with ridiculous ideas and policies, he doesn't strike me as a downright evil person like Thatcher.

[Goldwater]

Though choice. I seem to remember somebody saying that Thatcher was pro-choice, which seems to be the only major issue they disagree on, so I'll go with her.

Thatcher was more of what we would call a social liberal. I think it was Politicus who pointed (correctly, in my view) that Thatcher was much more of a liberal (classical, neo-, whathaveyou) than a conservative (upholding tradition and so on). This is evidenced not only on abortion, but how she viewed other issues such as divorce. She claimed it wasn't government's job to address societal/social/moral/whatever issues, which is much more in line with "classical" liberalism than conservatism, which would most definitely work to uphold what it considered tradition.

That's just my take, anyway.

That actually sounds quite a bit like myself. I wouldn't really consider myself conservative in any literal sense, but my political views are more right-wing which makes closer to American "conservatism" than American "liberalism".

[RR1997]

Reagan

[© tweed]

at least Reagan can plead not guilty by reason of incapacitation

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Though choice. I seem to remember somebody saying that Thatcher was pro-choice, which seems to be the only major issue they disagree on, so I'll go with her.

Thatcher was more of what we would call a social liberal. I think it was Politicus who pointed (correctly, in my view) that Thatcher was much more of a liberal (classical, neo-, whathaveyou) than a conservative (upholding tradition and so on). This is evidenced not only on abortion, but how she viewed other issues such as divorce. She claimed it wasn't government's job to address societal/social/moral/whatever issues, which is much more in line with "classical" liberalism than conservatism, which would most definitely work to uphold what it considered tradition.

That's just my take, anyway.

 I wouldn't call her that. In fact I could argue that John Major (despite the silly 'omg families!!' rhetoric) was far more with a neoliberal drone than thatcher. After all Thatcher picked her privatisation battles wisely. She targeted the easily demonised, able to construct a narrative of fighting the subsidised and lazy. The hard battles like the post office and railways were left for later. Thatcher also saw a huge expansion of Central government power with the strengthening of the police, the intelligence agencies and further undermining of local and regional power. As well as the coddling to Mary Whitehouse, Section 28, the ban on the voice of the IRA leAder etc.

[Representative MJM]

I can barely decide, but I'll say Thatcher because she didn't change the political landscape of the UK as greatly as Reagan and the conservative movement of his time did in the US. Even as New Labour moved to the right under recent leadership, they remained the party rooted in socialism, leaving a major left-wing political force to influence Britons. This never really existed in the US, so Reagan's impact remains prevalent even today. The UK, though, has all but abandoned Thatcherism because they don't fear socialist alternatives.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I can barely decide, but I'll say Thatcher because she didn't change the political landscape of the UK as greatly as Reagan and the conservative movement of his time did in the US. Even as New Labour moved to the right under recent leadership, they remained the party rooted in socialism, leaving a major left-wing political force to influence Britons. This never really existed in the US, so Reagan's impact remains prevalent even today. The UK, though, has all but abandoned Thatcherism because they don't fear socialist alternatives.

Most on the left would probably argue that the effects of Thatcher are still being felt which is why Scotland is that far against the Tories nowadays (obviously they would be anyway, but this is extreme). Both are still legends in their respective nations, but I wonder the US wouldn't feel the same negative backlash from those that were harmed to counteract that legendary status. Perhaps disenfranchisement to an extent? War on drugs and more recently race (i.e. everything Obama does is wrong) probably play a role in the US while UK's initial embracing of their EU neighbors helped them compensate with a slightly leftward shift.

Of course, it would be interesting to see how the successors played into it as the Tories also held power much longer, well into the Clinton years while Bush and Labour overlapped a bit. I can't speak too much for the UK side, but perhaps weariness of the Conservatives being in office led to a longer leash on what Labour could accomplish. Obviously in the US, Clinton couldn't do too much before the Gingrich started dictating a lot of the agenda.

[ingemann]

It's hard, they're both horrible people. But I vote Reagan because he at least had a greater public support.