What dynamics caused West Virginia to change so much?

[MissCatholic]

I was absoultely stunned by the result from West Virginia, 13 points i think.

What happened to it. Who has left the party and for what reasons.

The dems should look into it and use what they learn from Republican states.

[Frodo]

well, i went over this before in another thread, but partly it is due to the long-term trend of the Democratic Party laying less emphasis on economic issues as the source of their campaign funding moved from defunct labor unions of the early to mid 1980s to Rockefeller Republicans (increasingly estranged from their own party) and corporations, who tend to be socially liberal and economically conservative.  hence, working class peope (who tend to be populists) like those in West Virginia put less emphasis on economic issues when they vote when they perceive there being less of a diference between the two major parties. 

the fact that John Kerry abandoned West Virginia relatively close to the election didn't help his chances either. 

[Joe Republic]

This is really Al's territory.  He seems to know more about WV than probably a lot of people who actually live there.

I agree completely with what Frodo said above anyway.

[jokerman]

Simply, National Democrats haved moved away from their populist roots.

[Moooooo]

Simply, National Democrats haved moved away from their populist roots.

Bingo! 

Preston, just out of curiosity what did you score on the PC?

[jokerman]

Simply, National Democrats haved moved away from their populist roots.

Bingo! 

Preston, just out of curiosity what did you score on the PC?

Economic -3.88, Social +1.28

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

On the other hand more libertarian states like VT, NH, NJ, ME, and CA are now much more Democratic than before.

[A18]

Vermont and California are libertarian states? That's a good laugh.

The only thing libertarian about Vermont is it's gun laws, which I admit are very good.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Vermont and California are libertarian states? That's a good laugh.

The only thing libertarian about Vermont is it's gun laws, which I admit are very good.

They're deffinitely more socially liberal than economically liberal.  They're not libertarian in the no public roads or anything sense, but they lean in that direction.

Here's how Republicans did in the bay area when ocial issues weren't so important (1976).

BTW, Carter lost CA.

[A18]

Social libertarian and social liberal aren't really the same thing (gun control, states' rights, tobacco, affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws), though they certainly see eye to eye on some issues.

California probably has the worst tax burden in the country, and still has a budget crisis.

[jokerman]

Our nation is comprised of common-sense, practical populists.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Social libertarian and social liberal aren't really the same thing (gun control, states' rights, tobacco, affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws), though they certainly see eye to eye on some issues.

California probably has the worst tax burden in the country, and still has a budget crisis.

If you look at the states as a whole, Vermont is a better example. Calfiornia has a much lower tax burden than NY.  The budget problems now are in part due to the moron governor we have. He cut the car tax by $4.3 billion a year, and didn't replace it with another revenue source.

[A18]

Democrats control both chambers of the state legislature. I could be wrong, but I don't think any states let the governor just cut taxes at random.

I'm surprised Vermont hasn't changed its gun laws yet.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Democrats control both chambers of the state legislature. I could be wrong, but I don't think any states let the governor just cut taxes at random.

I'm surprised Vermont hasn't changed its gun laws yet.

The car tax was written so that the governor could decide to cut it. Why would Vermont change its gun laws? Just because they're socially liberal Democrats doesn't mean that they're anti-gun.

[Jake]

Social libertarian and social liberal aren't really the same thing (gun control, states' rights, tobacco, affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws), though they certainly see eye to eye on some issues.

California probably has the worst tax burden in the country, and still has a budget crisis.

If you look at the states as a whole, Vermont is a better example. Calfiornia has a much lower tax burden than NY.  The budget problems now are in part due to the moron governor we have. He cut the car tax by $4.3 billion a year, and didn't replace it with another revenue source.

Your problems seem to stem from the couple million Mexicans that are sucking the government tit without paying for any of it.  Deport them, and I'd bet you'd save money.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Social libertarian and social liberal aren't really the same thing (gun control, states' rights, tobacco, affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws), though they certainly see eye to eye on some issues.

California probably has the worst tax burden in the country, and still has a budget crisis.

If you look at the states as a whole, Vermont is a better example. Calfiornia has a much lower tax burden than NY.  The budget problems now are in part due to the moron governor we have. He cut the car tax by $4.3 billion a year, and didn't replace it with another revenue source.

Your problems seem to stem from the couple million Mexicans that are sucking the government tit without paying for any of it.  Deport them, and I'd bet you'd save money.

NY has lots of immigrants, higher taxes, and has dealt with its fiscal problems.  CA should figure out what to do. As for immigrants, if they're here legally, they're paying taxes.

[J. J.]

well, i went over this before in another thread, but partly it is due to the long-term trend of the Democratic Party laying less emphasis on economic issues as the source of their campaign funding moved from defunct labor unions of the early to mid 1980s to Rockefeller Republicans (increasingly estranged from their own party) and corporations, who tend to be socially liberal and economically conservative.  hence, working class peope (who tend to be populists) like those in West Virginia put less emphasis on economic issues when they vote when they perceive there being less of a diference between the two major parties. 

the fact that John Kerry abandoned West Virginia relatively close to the election didn't help his chances either. 

I agree, especially with the bolded part (which I did).  A better Kerry strategy would have been a "Ohio River" strategy.  Have he abandoned FL, and gone after WV and OH, he might have won.

This was suggested in late September and early October on this board.

[Notre Dame rules!]

well, i went over this before in another thread, but partly it is due to the long-term trend of the Democratic Party laying less emphasis on economic issues as the source of their campaign funding moved from defunct labor unions of the early to mid 1980s to Rockefeller Republicans (increasingly estranged from their own party) and corporations, who tend to be socially liberal and economically conservative.  hence, working class peope (who tend to be populists) like those in West Virginia put less emphasis on economic issues when they vote when they perceive there being less of a diference between the two major parties. 

the fact that John Kerry abandoned West Virginia relatively close to the election didn't help his chances either. 

I agree, especially with the bolded part (which I did).  A better Kerry strategy would have been a "Ohio River" strategy.  Have he abandoned FL, and gone after WV and OH, he might have won.

This was suggested in late September and early October on this board.

[Notre Dame rules!]

well, i went over this before in another thread, but partly it is due to the long-term trend of the Democratic Party laying less emphasis on economic issues as the source of their campaign funding moved from defunct labor unions of the early to mid 1980s to Rockefeller Republicans (increasingly estranged from their own party) and corporations, who tend to be socially liberal and economically conservative.  hence, working class peope (who tend to be populists) like those in West Virginia put less emphasis on economic issues when they vote when they perceive there being less of a diference between the two major parties. 

the fact that John Kerry abandoned West Virginia relatively close to the election didn't help his chances either. 

I agree, especially with the bolded part (which I did).  A better Kerry strategy would have been a "Ohio River" strategy.  Have he abandoned FL, and gone after WV and OH, he might have won.

This was suggested in late September and early October on this board.

WV wasn't even close.  His message clearly wasn't playing well with WV voters.  He was much closer in FL, though I don't believe that he could have won there either.  His best chance was OH, and he fell short.

[No more McShame]

On the other hand more libertarian states like VT, NH, NJ, ME, and CA are now much more Democratic than before.

In the case of NH especially, I would be interested to see if them voting Democratic this year is more of a case of anti-Bush (Iraq, deficits, etc.) or are they moving more Democratic, or was it just that John Kerry was a neighbor and New England seems to reward that more than other parts of the country.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

In the case of NH especially, I would be interested to see if them voting Democratic this year is more of a case of anti-Bush (Iraq, deficits, etc.) or are they moving more Democratic, or was it just that John Kerry was a neighbor and New England seems to reward that more than other parts of the country.

Umm, the change has been a  little bit more than that.
The last time a Massachusetts Democrat ran, it was the Republican's  (Bush 1988) 2nd best state.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

WV wasn't even close.  His message clearly wasn't playing well with WV voters.  He was much closer in FL, though I don't believe that he could have won there either.  His best chance was OH, and he fell short.

Ah, but Kerry was doing well in WV until he illogically and crassly began to pull out.

[PADem]

Simply, National Democrats haved moved away from their populist roots.

Bingo! 

Preston, just out of curiosity what did you score on the PC?

Economic -3.88, Social +1.28

You may just be my forum equal

[No more McShame]

In the case of NH especially, I would be interested to see if them voting Democratic this year is more of a case of anti-Bush (Iraq, deficits, etc.) or are they moving more Democratic, or was it just that John Kerry was a neighbor and New England seems to reward that more than other parts of the country.

Umm, the change has been a  little bit more than that.
The last time a Massachusetts Democrat ran, it was the Republican's  (Bush 1988) 2nd best state.

That's a good point, now the question is if  NH is really trending Dem or if voting Kerry was more of a backlash against the Iraq War which seems fairly widespread in NH.

[Lincoln Republican]

West Virginia Goes GOP

Besides the excellent reasons already stated, I would add

Opposition To Gun Control

Support of Social Conservatism, particularily opposition to gay marriage