Two Florida Girls arrested on bullying charges after suicide

[© tweed]

today in American liberalism: felonies for 12 year olds

[© tweed]

It's not like these girls called her a dork one time and she killed herself.  If the story is accurate, they literally tormented her for months, making her life a living Hell and directly encouraging her to commit suicide.  These girls are directly responsible for her death and should be held accountable.

should Ivan have been prosecuted for killing Smerdyakov?

[Landslide Lyndon]

I find nothing inappropriate about the charges. Tormenting and bullying someone to death, because you're too coward to do the deed yourself,  must not go unpunished (especially when we're talking about a sociopath in the making, as BRTD mentioned).

Several adults didn't do their job.  So the solution is for the cops to bully a 12 year old.  Charging a 12 year old with a felony for posting something on the internet is absurd.  What kind of police state do you want to live in?

The girl was tortured for months and the girls repeatedly told her to kill herself, according to reports. If they hadn't done that, she would still be alive. Do you deny this?

And there are 12 year olds that play with guns and end up shooting and killing their siblings.  You wouldn't suggest they are charged with a felony.  Just because someone dies doesn't mean we should call the cops and go crazy with revenge.

Intent makes a world of difference.

[Link]

Intent makes a world of difference.

In some civilized societies age makes a world of difference.  I'm curious.  Do you ever wonder why 12 year olds that machine gun down numerous people in the name of ethnic cleansing never get taken to Den Haag?

And I see we are still letting all the parents off the hook.  Don't even want to address that do we?

There's not enough detail here. What exactly did the bullying entail?

A 12 year old called another 12 year old a poo-poo head on the internet multiple times over the course of months... ya' know, the stuff felonies are made of.

[DC Al Fine]

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Ugh, we have two failures of parenting. The victim's mom not taking away her cell phone is sad, but the mother of the bully's response is infuriating.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

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Ugh, we have two failures of parenting. The victim's mom not taking away her cell phone is sad, but the mother of the bully's response is infuriating.

And this is why it's not so black and white.

[Deus Naturae]

Intent makes a world of difference.

In some civilized societies age makes a world of difference.  I'm curious.  Do you ever wonder why 12 year olds that machine gun down numerous people in the name of ethnic cleansing never get taken to Den Haag?

And I see we are still letting all the parents off the hook.  Don't even want to address that do we?

There's not enough detail here. What exactly did the bullying entail?

A 12 year old called another 12 year old a poo-poo head on the internet multiple times over the course of months... ya' know, the stuff felonies are made of.

Did you even read the article? She literally encouraged her to commit suicide.

[Link]

Intent makes a world of difference.

In some civilized societies age makes a world of difference.  I'm curious.  Do you ever wonder why 12 year olds that machine gun down numerous people in the name of ethnic cleansing never get taken to Den Haag?

And I see we are still letting all the parents off the hook.  Don't even want to address that do we?

There's not enough detail here. What exactly did the bullying entail?

A 12 year old called another 12 year old a poo-poo head on the internet multiple times over the course of months... ya' know, the stuff felonies are made of.

Did you even read the article? She literally encouraged her to commit suicide.

I read that the victim and one of the children charged are 12.  Then I read the all the parents got off scot-free.

The 12 year old probably said some really unkind things but that is the nature of the internet... and unsupervised 12 year olds.  Hardly something worthy of a felony... at least not for the 12 year old.

I don't know what you angels were like at 12 but I said all kinds of mean things that I would never condone now.  I was clueless.  I was not a sociopath.  I got into fights over stuff that I wouldn't even notice now.  I wasn't arrested.  I just grew up and had good parenting.  Even if someone punched me now I wouldn't punch them back.  I would just retreat.  I don't own any guns.  Look at my comments about Zimmerman.  The thought of someone pushing thirty getting into a fight with a teenager is absurd.  Teenagers can be punks.  That's why they have adult supervision.  Throwing a 12 year old in the slammer because the parent is an idiot is not the way to make society better.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Intent makes a world of difference.

In some civilized societies age makes a world of difference.  I'm curious.  Do you ever wonder why 12 year olds that machine gun down numerous people in the name of ethnic cleansing never get taken to Den Haag?

And I see we are still letting all the parents off the hook.  Don't even want to address that do we?

There's not enough detail here. What exactly did the bullying entail?

A 12 year old called another 12 year old a poo-poo head on the internet multiple times over the course of months... ya' know, the stuff felonies are made of.

Did you even read the article? She literally encouraged her to commit suicide.

I read that the victim and one of the children charged are 12.  Then I read the all the parents got off scot-free.

The 12 year old probably said some really unkind things but that is the nature of the internet... and unsupervised 12 year olds.  Hardly something worthy of a felony... at least not for the 12 year old.

I don't know what you angels were like at 12 but I said all kinds of mean things that I would never condone now.  I was clueless.  I was not a sociopath.  I got into fights over stuff that I wouldn't even notice now.  I wasn't arrested.  I just grew up and had good parenting.  Even if someone punched me now I wouldn't punch them back.  I would just retreat.  I don't own any guns.  Look at my comments about Zimmerman.  The thought of someone pushing thirty getting into a fight with a teenager is absurd.  Teenagers can be punks.  That's why they have adult supervision.  Throwing a 12 year old in the slammer because the parent is an idiot is not the way to make society better.

I would literally be in jail now if I said today what I said when I was that age.

[pbrower2a]

I miss the days when everyone just took care of these problems in the backyard or the playground at recess.  Simpler times with no mass suicides, shootings, etc.   Just wham-bam a few times and move on.

That's how things are done in the exercise yard and the shower room at the State Pen. That's not what I want kids to be prepared for. I want them to seek non-violent means to resolve disputes.

Things were not easier in those days.  Kids were getting broken bones. Know well, of course, that mothers were less likely to have paying jobs, so they could go to the principal's office and berate everyone involved even in being on the other side of a wall.

Kids got in trouble for abusive language -- and they rightly do now.

[Beet]

I don't think it's entirely unhealthy for kids to take a fight to the gut level-- the physical level. When I was a wee kid, a bunch of bigger kids tried to gang up on me. There were a lot of them-- pretty much all tagging along behind the popular boys. Once they targeted me practically half the schoolyard was after me. They tried to physically intimidate me. I ignored them. One of the guys in their group was tiny, he was even smaller than I was. I ignored everyone else and just started pushing and swinging at that kid. He was so terrified, then he started crying. After that, all the other kids sort of left me alone. I told my ma that story and she was proud of me for it.

I actually think it's a lot easier to slug it out-- no matter if you're the bully or the bullee-- than the psychological games girls play these days.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I actually think it's a lot easier to slug it out-- no matter if you're the bully or the bullee-- than the psychological games girls play these days.

Agreed.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I actually think it's a lot easier to slug it out-- no matter if you're the bully or the bullee-- than the psychological games girls play these days.

Agreed.

I was the victim of bullying up until 7th grade. Twice, once in 5th grade and once in 6th, I attacked my bullies knowing that I could get the sh*t beat out of me. Once people saw that I would at least fight, they left me alone as well.

Fighting can get you expelled now, and I think situations like this are the consequence.

[Deus Naturae]

Intent makes a world of difference.

In some civilized societies age makes a world of difference.  I'm curious.  Do you ever wonder why 12 year olds that machine gun down numerous people in the name of ethnic cleansing never get taken to Den Haag?

And I see we are still letting all the parents off the hook.  Don't even want to address that do we?

There's not enough detail here. What exactly did the bullying entail?

A 12 year old called another 12 year old a poo-poo head on the internet multiple times over the course of months... ya' know, the stuff felonies are made of.

Did you even read the article? She literally encouraged her to commit suicide.

I read that the victim and one of the children charged are 12.  Then I read the all the parents got off scot-free.

The 12 year old probably said some really unkind things but that is the nature of the internet... and unsupervised 12 year olds.  Hardly something worthy of a felony... at least not for the 12 year old.

I don't know what you angels were like at 12 but I said all kinds of mean things that I would never condone now.  I was clueless.  I was not a sociopath.  I got into fights over stuff that I wouldn't even notice now.  I wasn't arrested.  I just grew up and had good parenting.  Even if someone punched me now I wouldn't punch them back.  I would just retreat.  I don't own any guns.  Look at my comments about Zimmerman.  The thought of someone pushing thirty getting into a fight with a teenager is absurd.  Teenagers can be punks.  That's why they have adult supervision.  Throwing a 12 year old in the slammer because the parent is an idiot is not the way to make society better.

I don't disagree with you.The parents deserve most of the blame in this case. I was just pointing out that calling someone a "poo poo head" several times isn't really the same as near-constantly encouraging someone to kill themselves.

[Link]

I don't disagree with you.The parents deserve most of the blame in this case. I was just pointing out that calling someone a "poo poo head" several times isn't really the same as near-constantly encouraging someone to kill themselves.

Anyway,

Lol.  Welcome to the forum.  I say hyperbolic stuff all the time.  You'll see.  I can't tell you how many retractions I've been forced to make.

I am sure some deplorable stuff was said.  And I'm not saying the 12 year old victim was a softy or anything.  I'm sure their pain was very real.  But really any one of the parents could have stopped it.  If I found out my 12 year old was in a gang on the internet berating another 12 year old girl I would go crazy on them.

And if my daughter was a victim of such behavior I would definitely intervene.  Really I would remove the message board and cell phone access.  The second step would be contacting the parents of the children involved if there were still issues.  Sending abusive messages like that to someone is against the law.  Only if the other parents didn't take steps to stop the behavior would I then contact the cell phone providers, email providers, and the ISPs and report the behavior.  I would report it to the makers of the apps.  The TOS of telecom providers are pretty clear.  If there is a documented history of massive abuse directed at a 12 year old somebody would do something.  Mom and pop are going to be really pissed off when the only broadband provider in town permanently disconnects their home service because little Jennifer wants to be a cyberbully.  Not all providers will be instantaneously responsive but I have to imagine with such a large trove of abusive messages some of them will boot people off their networks/servers.

And of course if it was really bad enough and it didn't stop with a simple request from me I would ultimately contact the authorities.  But that would be a very last resort.  And it would not be for felony charges.

[nclib]

Saying that the parents should have been involved is not an excuse to be easy on the perpetrator. Saying that kids are kids, is not right (not even true since most kids aren't bullies).

Children get severe discipline for everything from chewing gum to dress code violations to cursing to tardiness to insubordination, yet we balk at the idea of severely punishing bullies for repeatedly tormenting someone (and we only care when it results in a suicide).

We're focusing on words on the internet (and access to the internet), where this bullying started in real life, and in a place where the victim was legally required to be, so it's imperative for the victim to have been protected.

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

Felony charges? Seriously? Talk about a massive overreaction.

Murder is a felony. Indirectly murdering someone is still murder.

[DC Al Fine]

Felony charges? Seriously? Talk about a massive overreaction.

Murder is a felony. Indirectly murdering someone is still murder.

The definitions are getting a bit murky here. How are you defining murder?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Felony charges? Seriously? Talk about a massive overreaction.

Murder is a felony. Indirectly murdering someone is still murder.

The definitions are getting a bit murky here. How are you defining murder?

I'd define it as committing criminal actions that could be reasonably presumed to have a risk of causing the homicide the defendant's actions are alleged to have precipitated,.