Senator Xahar stays on as Pacific Council Speaker

[Adam Griffin]

Your attitude towards the Pacific is pretty messed up. Yes, it is an inactive region. Yes, it has been that way for years now, ever since I have been involved at least. That doesn't mean the region sucked. While the rest of Atlasia was controlled by reactionary forces, the Pacific was at the forefront of passing laws expanding personal liberty and generally liberal/leftist legislation. Of course it was basically Bgwah and Ebowed doing it, but the Pacific has always been like that. There are always just a few people pulling the strings and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they are rational actors. I would not mind the NM-AM taking over the Pacific at this point of time....until when they decided the region needs to be destroyed. That is just not acceptable, at least outside a framework of an Atlasia wide rethinking of how regions are structured.

It's really not. What is messed up is seeing justification for one region being controlled by the same person for years and how that is morally superior on every level to the events of the past few months. If I am still sitting in the IDS five years from now and am using my residual influence to keep it in a perpetual state of inactive control, then please shoot me.

If you want to make the argument that policy was being passed in a semi-active fashion and that makes it a healthy region or is OK for the game, then that is a path you can take. I just don't agree that it amounts to a vibrant or healthy region. It was the same in the IDS for several years, and I have zero regrets for injecting political discourse into the mix (though the course was far different). Controversy and competition breed activity.

All of the outrage over these actions have been driven by newer players who have had their heartstrings tugged by and minds filled with nonsense by older players with a vested, biased interest in this battle. The former Liberals (who were still Liberals when this began) were upset for obvious reasons. The Federalists are going to beat this issue into the ground - just like they have for the past three months - because they think that sooner or later, they'll actually win an election on an issue (though it won't be an issue of their own creation, of course).

If the bias that existed that not been applied at the judicial level, then a smoother transition would have manifested: the Pacific would have ended as we knew it, the Senate would have acted and most likely been pushed to consider regional consolidation, and it would have been combined with one or more regions to make a healthier regional system (I would have liked to have seen a bicameral federal legislature with no regions, but whatever).

It's funny, because that is exactly what the Senate is discussing right now. One way or another, it is all coming full-circle. One way or another, regional consolidation is forthcoming. One way or another, the current region of the Pacific will end as we know it - and all of this would have happened three months ago if the Faux Outrage Patrol and Biased Bomb Squadron had admitted that the regional system was unsustainable and pursued what was best for the game's long-term needs. Thankfully, the newer people who were tricked into joining that awful region will have recourse once regional consolidation occurs, and can be part of active regions once again where they can build their careers. The former Pacific was not conducive to that, nor is the current Pacific.

Those of you who gripe are the ones who have caused the most damage, funnily enough: the simple actions of those involved in Rimjob would have already led to the "Pacific" being re-incorporated into various regions and this whole issue of inactivity/who controls what would no longer be an issue. Instead, you all have dug your heels into the ground and caused a potential catalyst for reform to take far longer than it ever should have. The mud-slinging and PM smear campaigns changed that, but can't stop it. Congrats.

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

Actually games are made by people who write the rules so there aren't any conflicts.

And then they are re-written. And re-written again, and again, and again...This game is nine years old - it'd amaze you how many things have been changed over its duration.

That argument might work if the game was created by an actual deity, but you're implying that a game is infallible from the get-go. By that logic, there'd be no reason for you nor I to participate, since all of the "rules" have been established and there's really nothing left to do. Nothing is permanent nor infallible in Atlasia.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

Sure, but what y'all did is more like drawing dicks all over the rulebook and then feeding it to your pet iguana.

[Flake]

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

Sure, but what y'all did is more like drawing dicks all over the rulebook and then feeding it to your pet iguana.

I like this explanation much better than mine

[PJ]

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

Sure, but what y'all did is more like drawing dicks all over the rulebook and then feeding it to your pet iguana.

I like this explanation much better than mine

Is profanity allowed in sigs? Because if it is, this is going in my sig.

[Kitteh]

saying "dicks" is profanity now? lol this place gets more weirdly uptight every day

[PJ]

saying "dicks" is profanity now? lol this place gets more weirdly uptight every day

I don't know if it is, that's why I'm asking.

[Sbane]

Your attitude towards the Pacific is pretty messed up. Yes, it is an inactive region. Yes, it has been that way for years now, ever since I have been involved at least. That doesn't mean the region sucked. While the rest of Atlasia was controlled by reactionary forces, the Pacific was at the forefront of passing laws expanding personal liberty and generally liberal/leftist legislation. Of course it was basically Bgwah and Ebowed doing it, but the Pacific has always been like that. There are always just a few people pulling the strings and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they are rational actors. I would not mind the NM-AM taking over the Pacific at this point of time....until when they decided the region needs to be destroyed. That is just not acceptable, at least outside a framework of an Atlasia wide rethinking of how regions are structured.

It's really not. What is messed up is seeing justification for one region being controlled by the same person for years and how that is morally superior on every level to the events of the past few months. If I am still sitting in the IDS five years from now and am using my residual influence to keep it in a perpetual state of inactive control, then please shoot me.

If you want to make the argument that policy was being passed in a semi-active fashion and that makes it a healthy region or is OK for the game, then that is a path you can take. I just don't agree that it amounts to a vibrant or healthy region. It was the same in the IDS for several years, and I have zero regrets for injecting political discourse into the mix (though the course was far different). Controversy and competition breed activity.

All of the outrage over these actions have been driven by newer players who have had their heartstrings tugged by and minds filled with nonsense by older players with a vested, biased interest in this battle. The former Liberals (who were still Liberals when this began) were upset for obvious reasons. The Federalists are going to beat this issue into the ground - just like they have for the past three months - because they think that sooner or later, they'll actually win an election on an issue (though it won't be an issue of their own creation, of course).

If the bias that existed that not been applied at the judicial level, then a smoother transition would have manifested: the Pacific would have ended as we knew it, the Senate would have acted and most likely been pushed to consider regional consolidation, and it would have been combined with one or more regions to make a healthier regional system (I would have liked to have seen a bicameral federal legislature with no regions, but whatever).

It's funny, because that is exactly what the Senate is discussing right now. One way or another, it is all coming full-circle. One way or another, regional consolidation is forthcoming. One way or another, the current region of the Pacific will end as we know it - and all of this would have happened three months ago if the Faux Outrage Patrol and Biased Bomb Squadron had admitted that the regional system was unsustainable and pursued what was best for the game's long-term needs. Thankfully, the newer people who were tricked into joining that awful region will have recourse once regional consolidation occurs, and can be part of active regions once again where they can build their careers. The former Pacific was not conducive to that, nor is the current Pacific.

Those of you who gripe are the ones who have caused the most damage, funnily enough: the simple actions of those involved in Rimjob would have already led to the "Pacific" being re-incorporated into various regions and this whole issue of inactivity/who controls what would no longer be an issue. Instead, you all have dug your heels into the ground and caused a potential catalyst for reform to take far longer than it ever should have. The mud-slinging and PM smear campaigns changed that, but can't stop it. Congrats.

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

Actually games are made by people who write the rules so there aren't any conflicts.

And then they are re-written. And re-written again, and again, and again...This game is nine years old - it'd amaze you how many things have been changed over its duration.

That argument might work if the game was created by an actual deity, but you're implying that a game is infallible from the get-go. By that logic, there'd be no reason for you nor I to participate, since all of the "rules" have been established and there's really nothing left to do. Nothing is permanent nor infallible in Atlasia.

I completely disagree with the bolded part. The inactivity isn't being perpetuated by some vast, hidden conspiracy. The inactivity in the Pacific is wholly organic. I don't see anything different in the Pacific that hinders activity. If you feel that is so, then you need to make that case instead of appealing to the apparent inherent evil of Wolfentoad or perhaps Bgwah. The Pacific used to have an universal legislature, during which time it was inactive. It switched to a legislature, and continued to be inactive. Inactivity seems inherent to the Pacific, for whatever reason. If you feel that is due to the actions of a few players, you need to make that case because it is not clear to me and I would suspect a lot of other people.

I wish the NM-AM would have at least tried to make the Pacific into an active region instead of just trying to destroy it. If they had put in as much effort into trying to revive the region instead of destroying it, perhaps we would have an active Pacific today. Although maybe that is just fantasy. Perhaps the Pacific would always stay inactive and I don't want it to seem that I think that is a good thing. That is why I am in support of a comprehensive change in how regions and the Senate is structured. I am very interested in where that leads, as long as the balance between regional senators and at large senators is not disturbed, which it is not in the current proposal by Nix.

I will miss the Pacific though. Please go back and look at the legislation passed there and look at the sort of legislation that was being passed by the Feds at the same time. It was the liberal/leftist region before that became the norm for all of Atlasia. I think the history of the Pacific is worthy of respect, not just trashing it like the NM-AM tried to do. I will not support any reform that targets only the Pacific, which even in inactive times has done great things. It needs to be an Atlasia-wide reform, which I am certainly open to.