SENATE BILL: Abolition of Senate Committees Resolution (Passed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment has been adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Are we ready to put this to a vote then?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A final vote is now open on the underlying Resolution, Senators please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

Thank God.

[TJ in Oregon]

Aye

[Sbane]

Aye

[TNF]

Aye

[bore]

Aye

[Kaine for Senate '18]

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye

That is rather tasteless don't you think, guys?  Ben, Scott, Napoleon, Kalwejt and many others besides myself, worked for this with the best of intentions. However badly it went, it is rather insensitive to approach the system with a diaf type attitude just because it didn't go as planned. Perhaps if more people had actually attempted to make them work instead of just pushing them away constantly they would have. Or perhaps they could have been altered, consolidated or reformed say back a few months ago to have avoided this fate. The Senate is struggling partially because many aren't engaging enough and cooperating. Though mistaken, it was most certainly worth attempting as a means to derive that focus through specialization and thus hopefully focusing people on their primary interests. We didn't foist this on the members to torture or impose on them. We did it so that we could actually have some "deliberation" in this deliberative body.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

If this is adopted, I plan to vote for the Resolution.

The biggest mistake we made was letting Scott get caried away. We would have been better with just two at the start and then making them work. I hate to lose the GOR, but there is just to much resistance to any kind of accountability based mechanism in this game because it either gets too partisan or too personal. As for Reform, there just isn't a desire to work out the details in some pre-floor discussion and avoid the perils of doing it on the floor, which is that is very easy to get set on a package only to have it fail in the Senate or lose in the Regions.

Uh, excuse me?  If I remember correctly, you were just as involved in the making of these committees as I was, and I helped create the IA Committee mostly because I was told to.  I also had no part in the creation of the NS Committee or the Oversight Committee.

Please think before you put all the blame on one person, Yankee.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If this is adopted, I plan to vote for the Resolution.

The biggest mistake we made was letting Scott get caried away. We would have been better with just two at the start and then making them work. I hate to lose the GOR, but there is just to much resistance to any kind of accountability based mechanism in this game because it either gets too partisan or too personal. As for Reform, there just isn't a desire to work out the details in some pre-floor discussion and avoid the perils of doing it on the floor, which is that is very easy to get set on a package only to have it fail in the Senate or lose in the Regions.

Uh, excuse me?  If I remember correctly, you were just as involved in the making of these committees as I was, and I helped create the IA Committee mostly because I was told to.  I also had no part in the creation of the NS Committee or the Oversight Committee.

Please think before you put all the blame on one person, Yankee.

Ease up man. I never placed the blame for the failure of the system on you or any of the other problems that plagued this, just for the number of spots. Hardly placing the blame on one person by any standard definition of the phrase. And if you will read my previous post, you will see, I defended all our involvement in this project. Perhaps, I should say please read the rest of the thread before getting angry.

Yes, I created the system largely because there was movement in that direction finally with Napoleon and I beleive it was Kalwejt before him makign a case for it in early 2012, though I had designs for something similar as far back as 2009. I created the system and I created one committee. I take full responsibility for not caping the number of spots at the beginning just as I do for having created the process and I don't regret having done that just how it was done. You did introduce the resolutions that doubled it to beyond the size of the Senate and that clearly has not been practical. At the time I did have a sense that we were moving too fast and I recall voicing that reluctance, but I don't remember where or how and perhaps I did forget that the last one was by request.

Though perhaps subconciously I am just voicing my frustration that you departed so soon after returning, this time.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

That post honestly wasn't meant to sound angry (or at least, as angry as it does) and I edited it several times to make it sound... less so, so I apologize for coming off that way.

The number of spots was intended to be somewhat large just so that everyone in the Senate could end up on a committee or two, the way it's done in real life, but I will concede that the committee system here has turned out to be a failure.  I mean, I was pretty hellbent on saving them when my last term started, but even when you, Ben and myself chaired them, the lack of enthusiasm was pretty obvious, so it's probably not a huge loss to the game that we're getting rid of them now.

[TJ in Oregon]

Aye

That is rather tasteless don't you think, guys?  Ben, Scott, Napoleon, Kalwejt and many others besides myself, worked for this with the best of intentions. However badly it went, it is rather insensitive to approach the system with a diaf type attitude just because it didn't go as planned. Perhaps if more people had actually attempted to make them work instead of just pushing them away constantly they would have. Or perhaps they could have been altered, consolidated or reformed say back a few months ago to have avoided this fate. The Senate is struggling partially because many aren't engaging enough and cooperating. Though mistaken, it was most certainly worth attempting as a means to derive that focus through specialization and thus hopefully focusing people on their primary interests. We didn't foist this on the members to torture or impose on them. We did it so that we could actually have some "deliberation" in this deliberative body.

Yankee, the gif was meant as a joke, you know, along the lines of the many you have made either by post or PM, such as your analogy here:

It doesn't help that the knife is presently at the throat of the system itself. Kinds of discourages attenativeness.

Yankee, of all the people to lecture me about "insensitivity"!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yes, TJ but it comes after a long line of comments and so forth that indicate that this system has aroused quite a bit of anger and hatred. It is one thing to oppose something because it didn't work, but this goes beyond that in my opinion. It almost strikes me as indignation at us having dared to impose this system on the members.

I am not a very social person TJ, but I would take a guess that at the end of the day I am far more "sensitive" then many of the people who engage in this game and are totally oblivious to impact they have or are and could not give a damn about it. If my controlled bursts give some people perspective or at least get them thinking, then I think everyone will be better off for it. It comes down to perspective and the ability to understand it as if you shared it. Sometimes outrage is the only way to awaken someone to their own blindness.

Also, I should not that I only included myself in that list at the last minute, because I didn't want to it to be about me and almost didn't at all. I wanted to probe this anger somehow, and that would get in the way. But considering it came in handy when responding to Scott, I am glad I did included myself in the list. Otherwise people would think I am trying to distance myself from the system or some nonesnes and miss the point.

This is starting to feel like a chess game.

That post honestly wasn't meant to sound angry (or at least, as angry as it does) and I edited it several times to make it sound... less so, so I apologize for coming off that way.

The number of spots was intended to be somewhat large just so that everyone in the Senate could end up on a committee or two, the way it's done in real life, but I will concede that the committee system here has turned out to be a failure.  I mean, I was pretty hellbent on saving them when my last term started, but even when you, Ben and myself chaired them, the lack of enthusiasm was pretty obvious, so it's probably not a huge loss to the game that we're getting rid of them now.

Yes, but we have always had three to five Senators who just hang on activity wise or worse. 12 spots means that five people had to carry all the load and pull double even triple duty. I know you were pretty determined, which is one of the many reasons I was dismayed by your departure.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You know it is pretty sad that the proponents of this Resolution need to rely on there most vocal adversary to get this Resolution passed. I said I would vote for it, but I didn't realize I would be the deciding vote, it just seems rather pathetic, really.

[MaxQue]

Aye

[TJ in Oregon]

I apologize to Yankee, my fellow citizens, and to the people of Atlasia for my hangman gif joke. It was in poor taste and added nothing of content to the debate over senate committees. I was wrong to have posted it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I apologize to Yankee, my fellow citizens, and to the people of Atlasia for my hangman gif joke. It was in poor taste and added nothing of content to the debate over senate committees. I was wrong to have posted it.

You are man of extremes TJ. I didn't want submission and supplication on the matter. I wanted insight. For the past three months or so, the abolition of the committees has seem to me to be almost a holy crusade. It failed yes, and determination is always a necessity to get things done in this game. But from your composition of it initially, Nix's attempts to fast track and now to the actions and statements in this thread. At various points something was done that hurt someone, not because of what was done, but how. Is that unavoidable in this game? Does someone have to get hurt. To tell you the truth, I really didn't care about not being contacted, or even about Nix's attempts to fast track it, or the hangman. What I cared about was illustrating the point, that many times the greatest harm is in some place where it was neither intended nor even seen sometimes. I felt especially compelled to do something in this vein when it came just a day or two after Nix had sent me a PM about how destructive this place can be. The only way to illustrate it was to feign being outraged over something.

If one of our greatest problem is the unwillingness to communicate, why refrain from doing so when it can avoid another of our problems, the burning of others on something (which discourages people from participating in the game?). Perhaps taking two months for this gambit to play out was less than ideal, though.


AYE

I'll close this after I eat dinner.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Final Passage of the Abolition of Senate Committees Resolution:

Aye (7): Bore, HagridoftheDeep, MaxQue, NC Yankee, sbane, TJ in Cleve and TNF
Nay (0):
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (3): Gass3268, Napoleon and Polnut

The Resolution has been passed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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3 Article 7, Section 3, Clause 4, of the OSPR is amended as follows:

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