Office of Jbrase: announcement

[PJ]

Press release (also with southern translation)

People of the IDS, I would like to inform you all that after much consideration, I have decided to introduce a bill that if passed would label the NM-AM a terrorist organization. From their efforts to drive Homelycooking insane in the new register thread or on ballots, to their bringing the Pacific region to it's knees, they have clearly demonstrated in their actions that this is needed.

Fella sud'ners, yours truly would like y'all to know that I have gone and wrote a bill. I say, this here bill will designate the NM-AM a terrorist group for the whole mess of trouble they have caused. If passed we will move ahead yonder in the right direction, I tell'ya what.

- Nym bless!

What a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

How?

It's undemocratic to call a party you don't like a terrorist organization.

On an unrelated note, Jbrase, would be interested in an interregional debate?

[Spamage]

Press release (also with southern translation)

People of the IDS, I would like to inform you all that after much consideration, I have decided to introduce a bill that if passed would label the NM-AM a terrorist organization. From their efforts to drive Homelycooking insane in the new register thread or on ballots, to their bringing the Pacific region to it's knees, they have clearly demonstrated in their actions that this is needed.

Fella sud'ners, yours truly would like y'all to know that I have gone and wrote a bill. I say, this here bill will designate the NM-AM a terrorist group for the whole mess of trouble they have caused. If passed we will move ahead yonder in the right direction, I tell'ya what.

- Nym bless!

What a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

How?

It's undemocratic to call a party you don't like a terrorist organization.

I think this goes on a deeper level than "not liking" them. They're the only group on individuals currently in the game who tried to abolish a region, caused anarchy, and when it failed still remained inactive in their council seats in order to get back at us or prove a point (either way its irrelevant). If they're going to come into the game with destruction, chaos, and anarchy in mind I see no problem with this. Has any other political party at present organized operations like this? No.

[PJ]

Press release (also with southern translation)

People of the IDS, I would like to inform you all that after much consideration, I have decided to introduce a bill that if passed would label the NM-AM a terrorist organization. From their efforts to drive Homelycooking insane in the new register thread or on ballots, to their bringing the Pacific region to it's knees, they have clearly demonstrated in their actions that this is needed.

Fella sud'ners, yours truly would like y'all to know that I have gone and wrote a bill. I say, this here bill will designate the NM-AM a terrorist group for the whole mess of trouble they have caused. If passed we will move ahead yonder in the right direction, I tell'ya what.

- Nym bless!

What a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

How?

It's undemocratic to call a party you don't like a terrorist organization.

I think this goes on a deeper level than "not liking" them. They're the only group on individuals currently in the game who tried to abolish a region, caused anarchy, and when it failed still remained inactive in their council seats in order to get back at us or prove a point (either way its irrelevant). If they're going to come into the game with destruction, chaos, and anarchy in mind I see no problem with this. Has any other political party at present organized operations like this? No.

They have been instrumental in causing economic turmoil, but calling them terrorists is simply sinking to their level. I am pretty sure most members who are not members of the movement would not elect them after this incident. The best way to save the pacific is to elect candidates who will be active democratically.

[Adam Griffin]

I think this goes on a deeper level than "not liking" them. They're the only group on individuals currently in the game who tried to abolish a region, caused anarchy, and when it failed still remained inactive in their council seats in order to get back at us or prove a point (either way its irrelevant). If they're going to come into the game with destruction, chaos, and anarchy in mind I see no problem with this. Has any other political party at present organized operations like this? No.

You guys should really pull the sticks out of your asses. I really like you, Spamage, but the notion that you should label a group as "terrorists" because they interact with the game in a different way than you is downright stupid. I encourage you to open up the Wiki and explore all of the different ways that people have had fun in this game over the years. The game is meant to be played, not meant to be played how you wish. I suppose you could have your own fun by creating an uber-national identity for yourselves and "outlaw" certain parties. Still, it makes you sound like a

Fascist.

[CatoMinor]

People seems to have very short memories here. I am not attacking a group for their beliefs, I am responding to what they have actually done.

Forget what their platform is, what they talk about, just focus on what has happend:
1. They brought the Pacific region too its knees in an effort to abolish it's government.
2. A Paramilitary group with close ties to the NM-AM was formed.
3. Does anyone doubt they would do it again if they could?

So can we please stop making sound like I am some fascist trying to kill parties I disagree with?

[PJ]

The attempts to abolish the Pacific were using democratic methods, and the attempts to stop them should also be democratic.

[Napoleon]

The attempts to abolish the Pacific were using democratic methods

No they weren't. They were deceptive, fraudulent, and unconstitutional.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think this goes on a deeper level than "not liking" them. They're the only group on individuals currently in the game who tried to abolish a region, caused anarchy, and when it failed still remained inactive in their council seats in order to get back at us or prove a point (either way its irrelevant). If they're going to come into the game with destruction, chaos, and anarchy in mind I see no problem with this. Has any other political party at present organized operations like this? No.

You guys should really pull the sticks out of your asses. I really like you, Spamage, but the notion that you should label a group as "terrorists" because they interact with the game in a different way than you is downright stupid. I encourage you to open up the Wiki and explore all of the different ways that people have had fun in this game over the years. The game is meant to be played, not meant to be played how you wish. I suppose you could have your own fun by creating an uber-national identity for yourselves and "outlaw" certain parties. Still, it makes you sound like a

Fascist.

Yes, but doesn't that same history involve people responding similarly? I mean like bgwah and the WND business, for instance?

Would not the way the NM-AM "played the game" classify is it being played "their way"? In my opinion I would consider Rimjob andexample of playing the game by your own rules and at the expense of others. That is both detrimental and destructive long term to participation and interest. I like my analogy of taking a zippo to your hand once you have folded in poker.

You have been hanging out in the digital cesspool too long Adam. You should follow the President's lead.

[Хahar 🤔]

Press release (also with southern translation)

People of the IDS, I would like to inform you all that after much consideration, I have decided to introduce a bill that if passed would label the NM-AM a terrorist organization. From their efforts to drive Homelycooking insane in the new register thread or on ballots, to their bringing the Pacific region to it's knees, they have clearly demonstrated in their actions that this is needed.

Fella sud'ners, yours truly would like y'all to know that I have gone and wrote a bill. I say, this here bill will designate the NM-AM a terrorist group for the whole mess of trouble they have caused. If passed we will move ahead yonder in the right direction, I tell'ya what.

- Nym bless!

I do appreciate that Jbrase is translating his official pronunciamientos into Foghorn Leghorn for our benefit.

[PJ]

The attempts to abolish the Pacific were using democratic methods

No they weren't. They were deceptive, fraudulent, and unconstitutional.

True, but you can still be deceptive and fraudulent using democratic methods. About the unconstitutionality, just because a party defies the constitution doesn't make them terrorists. In RL America, both parties have tried to pass unconstitutional laws, but neither of them have been labeled a terrorists. 

[Hash]

1. They brought the Pacific region too its knees in an effort to abolish it's government.

Doing that does not make one "terrorists". It would if they used violent means, such as extrajudicial killings, bombings and armed insurgency against the government to do so, but obviously NMAM did nothing of that kind (and if anybody thinks we did, damn I'd like to smoke what they're smoking!). We abolished a regional government through democratic means, and many opponents of the Movement agree with us on this point.

Of course, the proponents of this legislation have adopted very wide and liberal definitions of terrorism, which no serious academic would ever treat as actual definitions. Just being 'deceptive', 'fraudulent' and 'unconstitutional' is enough to be a terrorist apparently. On this basis, I could think of tons of perfectly democratic political parties which I could 'justifiably' call terrorists just because I subjectively think that what they're doing is, in my eyes, 'deceptive' and 'fraudulent'. I hope a few reasonable people here, regardless of their opinions about NMAM, realize the utter ridiculousness of this whole thing.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Firstly, it is a huge stretch of this imagination to brand this caucus a 'paramilitary group' given that it never had an army, armed troops or carried out any armed attacks against anyone or anything. Besides, in my memory, it never directly threatened to use force or violence (just going for one second in your fantasyland where apparently using violence is apparently possible in Atlasia...) against anybody or anything.

Secondly, NMAM never at any point declared its official support for this group. Did it support ideas similar to that of NMAM? Yes. But what does that prove? Nothing.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So now, if 'someone' doubts that a group could do terrorist things in the future, we'd have the right to brand them terrorists. On such flimsy grounds, I sure could have 'doubts' that some parties/citizens here could become terrorists. No certainties, oh no, just 'doubts' that somebody 'could' do something terrorist 'if they could'. For example, I think the FN "could" stage an insurgency against the state "if they could" - I'm not going to bet any money on that, but since I just have a little doubt about this possibility, I could go and call them "terrorists".

Furthermore, I am quite certain that banning political parties and, as a result, denying legally registered and recognized Atlasian citizens the right to hold office, democratically participate in Atlasia and perhaps even vote or voice opinions is very much unconstitutional. This is all scarily reminiscent of McCarthyism and apartheid-era South Africa - if you're not with us, you're with 'them' (the terrorists, obviously) and anybody who expresses opinions different from those of the state are 'terrorists'.

Additionally, banning a party - besides its blatant unconstitutionality - would create an extremely dangerous precedent, which could be abused by anybody with beef against a party/citizen(s).

[CatoMinor]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[PJ]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good point. Could we find out who said that? Based on the previous comments made by Hashemite, either Hashemite's statements are false, the random movement member is lying, or this statement was never made.

[CatoMinor]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good point. Could we find out who said that? Based on the previous comments made by Hashemite, either Hashemite's statements are false, the random movement member is lying, or this statement was never made.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=175154.0

[CatoMinor]

After some consideration, I am willing to amend the bill. What this amended bill will do is provide a clear definition for what terrorism is for IDS purposes. We must remember that Atlasia is not RL, and as such certain things such as violance are impossible. But that being said, actions can still be taken that do much harm to Atlasia, it's institutions, and it's citizens in the name of furthering the political objectives of some, which include no physical force or violence.

Under the amended bill the NM-AM will be safe by ex-post facto protections. Also they or any other group who try something like Rim Job again will fall at the mercy of the IDS Judicial System, not just one statute singling them out. This is more than a reasonable compromise in my opinion.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Zanas]

Don't you people remember that no sooner than last year, someone who's presently a Senator bombed a building in the Midwest and assumed government taking hostages or something ? Why is he Senator today then ? Yes, because usually people f**king get over it.

Plus, anarchy can very much be a political system, and even a pretty good one if you ask some communities in Aragon or Catalogne...

[CatoMinor]

Plus, anarchy can very much be a political system, and even a pretty good one if you ask some communities in Aragon or Catalogne...

But do those communities have a small group that put those communities in a position that it is (by law) impossible for the citizens to change it?

[Zanas]

No, that part was too far-fetched for me. I'll give it to you.

[CatoMinor]

My deepest apologies to everyone, but due to some personal matters I will not be able to devote as much attention here and therefor resign my seat in the IDS legislature. My mother is very ill and is getting worse, so I am sure you can all understand.

- your friendly neighborhood Groucho Marxist

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

We've had our disagreements, but I don't think anyone would have wanted to leave because of something like this. My condolences to your mother.

[Velasco]

I hope your mother will get better.

Regards.