The Norman conquest of England
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All Along The Watchtower
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« on: April 10, 2013, 04:35:09 PM »

How did the Norman conquest of England in  the 11th century impact and influence the course of Western Europe's history? How significant was the Norman conquest of England, in terms of British history? If it was very significant, why? If not, then why not?

These questions are intended to prompt thoughtful discussion, but I am also genuinely curious. Tongue
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The Mikado
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 05:07:07 PM »

How did the Norman conquest of England in  the 11th century impact and influence the course of Western Europe's history? How significant was the Norman conquest of England, in terms of British history? If it was very significant, why? If not, then why not?

These questions are intended to prompt thoughtful discussion, but I am also genuinely curious. Tongue

This reads more like an essay prompt than an invitation to discussion.

Saxon England had been in a pretty major state of flux for the half-century prior to the Conquest, with King Cnut's prior conquest and the subsequent retreat of Danish power, and Harold Godwinson's tumultuous relationship to his brother-in-law St. Edward the Confessor in Edward's lifetime (Harold actually fled to Normandy at one point and surrendered his claim to William, and Harold's subsequent going back on that and attempts to secure himself as king precipitated the Norman Invasion).   In many ways, the Norman Invasion was the direct result of St. Edward the Confessor's inability to father any kids, a huge problem in a hereditary monarchy.

Don't forget that Harald III of Norway invaded England at the same time as the Normans and Harold had to march up to battle Harald at Stamford Bridge, then turn around and battle William at Hastings.  The Saxon forces were tired going into Hastings.

The most significant element of Hastings was not the change in kings, it was the Medieval tendency to associate lords of territory with military commanders.  The entire Anglo-Saxon nobility was wiped out at Hastings or in William's later campaigns.  Anglo-Saxon England was not simply conquered, it had its head cut off, allowing William to distribute almost all of the noble titles of England to his vassals and put a new Norman head on the Anglo-Saxon body politic.  The introduction of Norman law (like the famous "trial by combat"), Law French's official status, and so on are all symptoms of England's alien ruling class.  In time, the Anglo-Saxon and (Anglo-)Norman cultures grow together, particularly after England lost Normandy itself in the early 13th century.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 08:02:15 AM »

Yeah, the first question could be a hefty tome. Tongue But since there are so few Medieval or archaeological topics, I'd love to jump in on this one.

First, the reason why William felt compelled to replace the Saxon aristocracy was because he had so many promises to fulfill. Even after Edward's death, it was still considered crazy to invade A-S England, especially for a Duke, so William made a lot of promises and did a lot of wheeling and dealing to build an army. No one would have attempted it with Edward as King. Now, not only was the battle hell, it was fought and won on October 14, but William was not crowned until December 25. He almost died himself from general illness during the intervening time, there was malnutrition, dysentery, and almost certainly food poisoning. What did they do? Roamed the countryside staying out of the woods, at least for a short while. William secured several towns along the way before arriving in London. So there were a lot of prizes to meter out after going through all that.

As to the battle, William got a number of big breaks that allowed him to win. I estimate he wins that against Harold II Godwineson maybe two in ten times; that was one of the two. The Saxons were not having a hard time repelling the Normans from the top of Senlac Hill (from "sangue lac" = blood lake) until a wing of Godwineson's army got impatient and pursued the Normans off the hill where, on level ground, the Saxons were cut down. That was a major blow that thinned out the shield wall. Plus, Edwin and Morcar were still to arrive from the North. After all that, William still needed all day and one final push up the hill with everyone he had left at dusk to break through the shield wall.

What were the impacts? Language and culture. Anglo-Saxon (Old English) was basically Old German. So, today English would look a lot more like German than it does now had Harold held - probably with a dose of Latin, making for what to us would be a quite strange language. And if there are alternate universes, quite a few of them have this. England likely would have trended more in the direction of Scandinavian culture, since there was and actually still is a great amount of Scandinavian and Germanic DNA in England. Minus the French influence for centuries, the culture would be more Scandinavian. So no Cor de Lion? Nope. No Tudors? No War of the Roses? No Shakespeare? Likely not.
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