Is Loughner faking insanity?

[Kevin]

I was watching an interview from one of Jared Loughner's ex girlfriend's who claims that he is faking this all to gain attention and avoid the death penalty in the process. Although I'm not seeing how someone could really pull this off, it does leave me wondering how someone could actually be this insane like given all the things this guy has said both in and out of custody and the fact that in a creepy almost horror movie like move in posed in a thong with the Glock he used in the Gifford's shooting before committing the crime he did.

So does anyone think there might be any possibility to this notion put forward by his ex-girlfriend?

[Beet]

Well it was definitely very premeditated, we can say that much.

[ilikeverin]

No.  No.  And, furthermore, no.

[Badger]

No. The guy is nucking futs.

[Redalgo]

I don't know what qualifies being "insane" by legal standards but this guy is definitely not faking.

[anvi]

She was his girlfriend?  Maybe she is insane.

[Zarn]

I think that pic of him (it's on his wiki) says it all.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No. The guy is nucking futs.

Indeed he is, Reverend.

[Lief 🗽]

The legal definition of insanity is different from the layman's definition. The legal definition, if I'm correct, is that one is so disturbed that he doesn't know the crime he is committing is wrong. From what Loughner wrote the day before the shooting, he clearly knew what we was going to do was a bad thing. I think it'll be very hard for the defense to argue that he's innocent by way of insanity.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The legal definition of insanity is different from the layman's definition. The legal definition, if I'm correct, is that one is so disturbed that he doesn't know the crime he is committing is wrong. From what Loughner wrote the day before the shooting, he clearly knew what we was going to do was a bad thing. I think it'll be very hard for the defense to argue that he's innocent by way of insanity.

How does diminished responsibility work in the U.S these days? Was it only Kullyvorniya that it was greatly weakened/scrapped in, or the whole country?

[minionofmidas]

Yes. Trying to pass as insane is what he shot all these people for.

[Free Palestine]

People can be immensely cruel bastards about meaningless things like relationships, so I don't think it's really too safe to take what one ex-girlfriend says seriously.

[Bacon King]

Interestingly, Arizona state law (under which he'll be tried for shooting the people that weren't Federal employees) has no "not guilty by reason of insanity" verdict possible on the books; the state instead has the "guilty but insane" verdict, where the defendant still has to go to prison (I don't know how AZ law specifically works, but usually someone who is "guilty but insane" gets a potentially reduced sentence at the discretion of the judge and spends it in the psychiatric ward of a prison hospital).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The legal definition of insanity is different from the layman's definition. The legal definition, if I'm correct, is that one is so disturbed that he doesn't know the crime he is committing is wrong. From what Loughner wrote the day before the shooting, he clearly knew what we was going to do was a bad thing. I think it'll be very hard for the defense to argue that he's innocent by way of insanity.

How does diminished responsibility work in the U.S these days? Was it only Kullyvorniya that it was greatly weakened/scrapped in, or the whole country?

Actually California was the only state that seriously implemented it as a possible defense. I've never heard of it being seriously used anywhere else, basically the only thing similar to it that could be used is if the defendant is mentally retarded.

And as noted Loughner is no doubt crazy, but not crazy in the legal sense, and of course what Bacon King said as well. The main thing is that even if he is a paranoid schizophrenic there are plenty of schizophrenics who haven't murdered six people and wounded several others. I don't see him getting off on such a plea, and come to think of it "guilty but insane" is a rather accurate description of him.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It's for specialist to determine.

However, he have now a very good reason to fake it, if he's sane.

[Gustaf]

I'm reminded by that line from Agatha Christie - something like "all murderers are insane. You have to be insane to murder someone"

Using a non-legal definition pretty much anyone who does premeditated murder is not of sound mind (there are exceptions, but rather few). That doesn't mean they get off the hook via legal insanity. But I'm not really familiar enough with American law on this matter to know.

In Sweden you can get off if you weren't acting rationally during the act, or something like that. There was a man who had a retarded son who was being bullied and threatened by a local gang. They came by their isolated house in the woods with baseball bats and told him to come out because they were going to beat him to death. The dad comes out with a shotgun and ends up shooting one of the guys to death. The dad did have certain mental problems and got off.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

In Sweden you can get off if you weren't acting rationally during the act, or something like that. There was a man who had a retarded son who was being bullied and threatened by a local gang. They came by their isolated house in the woods with baseball bats and told him to come out because they were going to beat him to death. The dad comes out with a shotgun and ends up shooting one of the guys to death. The dad did have certain mental problems and got off.

That sounds more like self defense than insanity.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

No, he is genuinely batshit crazy.

[Insula Dei]

I'm reminded by that line from Agatha Christie - something like "all murderers are insane. You have to be insane to murder someone"

Using a non-legal definition pretty much anyone who does premeditated murder is not of sound mind (there are exceptions, but rather few). That doesn't mean they get off the hook via legal insanity. But I'm not really familiar enough with American law on this matter to know.

Well, if there's a clear motive, that wouldn't really be 'insane' even in a non-clinical/non-legal way.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No, anyone who wipes out that many people and who wanted to wipe out more, is clearly insane.

That said..........stick a needle in him.

[Gustaf]

In Sweden you can get off if you weren't acting rationally during the act, or something like that. There was a man who had a retarded son who was being bullied and threatened by a local gang. They came by their isolated house in the woods with baseball bats and told him to come out because they were going to beat him to death. The dad comes out with a shotgun and ends up shooting one of the guys to death. The dad did have certain mental problems and got off.

That sounds more like self defense than insanity.

That was widely debated, but the court ducked the issue by going with insanity. Public opinion was heavily on the side of it being self-defence.

[Gustaf]

I'm reminded by that line from Agatha Christie - something like "all murderers are insane. You have to be insane to murder someone"

Using a non-legal definition pretty much anyone who does premeditated murder is not of sound mind (there are exceptions, but rather few). That doesn't mean they get off the hook via legal insanity. But I'm not really familiar enough with American law on this matter to know.

Well, if there's a clear motive, that wouldn't really be 'insane' even in a non-clinical/non-legal way.

What's a clear motive to you? I could get my hands on a lot of money if I murdered my grandmother and my parents. I have a clear motive to do so. Yet, I would never do it. This is true for most people.

I'm reminded of that story about the funeral. Some of you have probably heard it. A woman is attending her grandmother's funeral. She sees a really attractive man there that she immediately falls in love with, but doesn't recognize. She cannot find him after the service though, so she devotes herself after the funeral to trying to locate him.

A couple of weeks later she kills her sister. Why?

Spoiler: () She thought the guy might show up at the funeral of her sister and then she might get a chance to talk to him. I've been told (might obviously be untrue) that this is used to identify psychopaths, because they can often nail this very quickly. The point of all this is of course that I would consider a person doing this to be insane, even though she has a clear motive in her mind