We're too quick to use "mental illness" as an explanation for violence.

[Beet]

I don't think sane people are likely to go off and randomly massacer a bunch of strangers if they get drunk. They might beat the wife to death or something though.

Actually, plenty of sober, sane people go off and randomly massacre a bunch of strangers. Maybe you don't get that so much in Sweden.

Really? Cite?

http://www.epicdisasters.com/index.php/site/comments/the_worst_school_massacres_shootings_and_killings/

[Nym90]

But yeah, the vast majority of mentally ill people don't go on shooting sprees, so mental illness is certainly not an excuse for committing crimes. As an explanation, it is only a very small part of the overall story. Those who are ill still have an obligation to control their illness and prevent it from hurting others, and we certainly should strongly punish those who are unwilling or unable to.

You're a monster. A clueless monster.

I don't think that's fair; he phrased something poorly. I mean, if someone has a condition in theory where they can't help attempting violence on others from time to time, they are not going to be granted their freedom. And even if this isn't meant as a punishment, it would have almost the same effect.

Yeah, that's basically what I meant. I guess "strongly" is subjective. They should certainly not be granted freedom.

[Nym90]

Who the heck cares what his "real reasons" were, so long as this guy fries for what he did.

I'm not sure if it is permissible to express this, but some people might consider this type of knowledge of causation to be potentially useful for formulating policies of prevention.

I already did, so I think the answer is that yes, it is permissible....

[Iosif is a COTHO]

I don't think sane people are likely to go off and randomly massacer a bunch of strangers if they get drunk. They might beat the wife to death or something though.

Actually, plenty of sober, sane people go off and randomly massacre a bunch of strangers. Maybe you don't get that so much in Sweden.

Really? Cite?

(and no, I can't think of a single case in Sweden where that has happened - depending on how you define being sane, of course)

Well, obviously it's never an entirely rational thing to do to go on a massacre, but there are plenty of cases of people who've been fired/are getting divorced/going through severe stress in their lives snapping.

To give another analogy, I believe adult males under 30 have a higher proportion of suicides than any other demographic. So if a 19 year old male you know committed suicide, would you accept 'Well, he was a 19 year old male' as an explanation?

[opebo]

Who the heck cares what his "real reasons" were, so long as this guy fries for what he did.

I'm not sure if it is permissible to express this, but some people might consider this type of knowledge of causation to be potentially useful for formulating policies of prevention.

I already did, so I think the answer is that yes, it is permissible....

Well I don't know - so far we have gotten away with it, but maybe its just that no one reported our posts.  I mean to suggest that there are might be such causation is a very extremist and 'trolling' sort of assertion, probably designed only to enrage the majority of forumites who (seem to) believe in 'free will'.

Anyway I think when expressing such radical and questionable ideas, it is best to couch them in the kind of language I used in my post.  Your post was pithy and far more satisfying in terms of writing style and clarity, but mine gave a tip of the hat to our shepherds and the other sheep.

[Gustaf]

I don't think sane people are likely to go off and randomly massacer a bunch of strangers if they get drunk. They might beat the wife to death or something though.

Actually, plenty of sober, sane people go off and randomly massacre a bunch of strangers. Maybe you don't get that so much in Sweden.

Really? Cite?

http://www.epicdisasters.com/index.php/site/comments/the_worst_school_massacres_shootings_and_killings/

Where does it say that those people were sane and sober? I'm not counting Beslan, because that wasn't really random, but an act of terror.

I realize it's not a fair way to run an argument here, but my definition of sane pretty much excludes randomly killing a bunch of people.

[Lunar]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday.

....

“He would ask me constantly, ‘Do you see that blue tree over there?’ He would admit to seeing the sky as orange and the grass as blue,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “Normal people don’t talk about that stuff.”

...

He also said that Mr. Loughner had increasing trouble interacting in social settings — during one party, for instance, Mr. Loughner retreated upstairs alone to a room and was found reading a dictionary.