Catalonian elections

[Iannis]

CiU was lefty nationalist, right?

CiU is formed by two parties: UDC and CDC. UDC is very conservative and its leader is Josep Antoni duran i LLeida (who is the leader of CiU in the congress), and CDC claims to be economically conservative and socially liberal (a centrist party). Its leader is Artur Mas. They are regionalist who want to be a country in a far future.

PSC is regionalist and has centre-left views. It's probably more conservative than PSOE, but not by much.

ERC is formed by left nationalist people and majority of their members are crazy.

ICV is the catalonian Izquierda Unida (communists) but they actually are a mix of greenies and communist. its leader is an excellent person and a better politician. I'd support him, but I don't like IU and I think montilla is a great leader who didn't make a great term because of ERC.

SI is like ERC but his leader is the crazy ex-president of Barcelona futbol club and people are crazier than in ERC:

PP is a fascist party.

C's is formed by those right-wing people who don't like fascists and really love spain (spanish nationalists in catalonia).

UPyD is similar to C's but it doesn't stand a chance in catalonia.

Reagrupament is a party created by joan carretero, a former xenophobic leader of ERC that represents the craziest people in catalonia. they are a political version of Batasuna in catalonia.

Plataforma Per Catalunya was a party created by a franquist person, Josep Anglada, that only talks about muslim (they are growing fast in catalonia) and has literally said he would kill all of them if he were the president. PP and PxC are fighting for the xenophobic vote.

Alternativa de Govern is a party created by monserrat nebrera, a sore loser who lost to alicia sanchez camacho for the general secretary pòsition in the PP of catalonia. she'll be lucky to get 0.5% of the vote.

ahahaah PP a fascist party!!  why were they allied to PP during the first Aznar government? So everyone against a strong federalism is fascist?

yes, PP is a afscist party. and it will be a fascist party until people like Jaime Mayor Oreja or Arias Cañete continue in the leadership positions. there's also manuel fraga, who is a former franco minister and is the person who created the party. also, jose maria aznar (the only PP's president of spain) is more conservative thna Jim DeMint and his father was also a fraco's minister . PP, as Le Pen said, is the only "real right" that can win in any state of europe.

As you should know a party has to be judged on the laws it performed, not on the personal background or even the leader's fathers. So, which "fascist" laws PP did in Spain?

[Хahar 🤔]

CiU was lefty nationalist, right?

CiU is formed by two parties: UDC and CDC. UDC is very conservative and its leader is Josep Antoni duran i LLeida (who is the leader of CiU in the congress), and CDC claims to be economically conservative and socially liberal (a centrist party). Its leader is Artur Mas. They are regionalist who want to be a country in a far future.

PSC is regionalist and has centre-left views. It's probably more conservative than PSOE, but not by much.

ERC is formed by left nationalist people and majority of their members are crazy.

ICV is the catalonian Izquierda Unida (communists) but they actually are a mix of greenies and communist. its leader is an excellent person and a better politician. I'd support him, but I don't like IU and I think montilla is a great leader who didn't make a great term because of ERC.

SI is like ERC but his leader is the crazy ex-president of Barcelona futbol club and people are crazier than in ERC:

PP is a fascist party.

C's is formed by those right-wing people who don't like fascists and really love spain (spanish nationalists in catalonia).

UPyD is similar to C's but it doesn't stand a chance in catalonia.

Reagrupament is a party created by joan carretero, a former xenophobic leader of ERC that represents the craziest people in catalonia. they are a political version of Batasuna in catalonia.

Plataforma Per Catalunya was a party created by a franquist person, Josep Anglada, that only talks about muslim (they are growing fast in catalonia) and has literally said he would kill all of them if he were the president. PP and PxC are fighting for the xenophobic vote.

Alternativa de Govern is a party created by monserrat nebrera, a sore loser who lost to alicia sanchez camacho for the general secretary pòsition in the PP of catalonia. she'll be lucky to get 0.5% of the vote.

ahahaah PP a fascist party!!  why were they allied to PP during the first Aznar government? So everyone against a strong federalism is fascist?

yes, PP is a afscist party. and it will be a fascist party until people like Jaime Mayor Oreja or Arias Cañete continue in the leadership positions. there's also manuel fraga, who is a former franco minister and is the person who created the party. also, jose maria aznar (the only PP's president of spain) is more conservative thna Jim DeMint and his father was also a fraco's minister . PP, as Le Pen said, is the only "real right" that can win in any state of europe.

As you should know a party has to be judged on the laws it performed, not on the personal background or even the leader's fathers. So, which "fascist" laws PP did in Spain?

There's more to government than simply the enacting of laws.

[Iannis]

CiU was lefty nationalist, right?

CiU is formed by two parties: UDC and CDC. UDC is very conservative and its leader is Josep Antoni duran i LLeida (who is the leader of CiU in the congress), and CDC claims to be economically conservative and socially liberal (a centrist party). Its leader is Artur Mas. They are regionalist who want to be a country in a far future.

PSC is regionalist and has centre-left views. It's probably more conservative than PSOE, but not by much.

ERC is formed by left nationalist people and majority of their members are crazy.

ICV is the catalonian Izquierda Unida (communists) but they actually are a mix of greenies and communist. its leader is an excellent person and a better politician. I'd support him, but I don't like IU and I think montilla is a great leader who didn't make a great term because of ERC.

SI is like ERC but his leader is the crazy ex-president of Barcelona futbol club and people are crazier than in ERC:

PP is a fascist party.

C's is formed by those right-wing people who don't like fascists and really love spain (spanish nationalists in catalonia).

UPyD is similar to C's but it doesn't stand a chance in catalonia.

Reagrupament is a party created by joan carretero, a former xenophobic leader of ERC that represents the craziest people in catalonia. they are a political version of Batasuna in catalonia.

Plataforma Per Catalunya was a party created by a franquist person, Josep Anglada, that only talks about muslim (they are growing fast in catalonia) and has literally said he would kill all of them if he were the president. PP and PxC are fighting for the xenophobic vote.

Alternativa de Govern is a party created by monserrat nebrera, a sore loser who lost to alicia sanchez camacho for the general secretary pòsition in the PP of catalonia. she'll be lucky to get 0.5% of the vote.

ahahaah PP a fascist party!!  why were they allied to PP during the first Aznar government? So everyone against a strong federalism is fascist?

yes, PP is a afscist party. and it will be a fascist party until people like Jaime Mayor Oreja or Arias Cañete continue in the leadership positions. there's also manuel fraga, who is a former franco minister and is the person who created the party. also, jose maria aznar (the only PP's president of spain) is more conservative thna Jim DeMint and his father was also a fraco's minister . PP, as Le Pen said, is the only "real right" that can win in any state of europe.

As you should know a party has to be judged on the laws it performed, not on the personal background or even the leader's fathers. So, which "fascist" laws PP did in Spain?

There's more to government than simply the enacting of laws.

for example??

[Hash]

Can we all please calm down and stop polluting this thread with useless debate? You have other boards for that.

[Niemeyerite]

CiU was lefty nationalist, right?

CiU is formed by two parties: UDC and CDC. UDC is very conservative and its leader is Josep Antoni duran i LLeida (who is the leader of CiU in the congress), and CDC claims to be economically conservative and socially liberal (a centrist party). Its leader is Artur Mas. They are regionalist who want to be a country in a far future.

PSC is regionalist and has centre-left views. It's probably more conservative than PSOE, but not by much.

ERC is formed by left nationalist people and majority of their members are crazy.

ICV is the catalonian Izquierda Unida (communists) but they actually are a mix of greenies and communist. its leader is an excellent person and a better politician. I'd support him, but I don't like IU and I think montilla is a great leader who didn't make a great term because of ERC.

SI is like ERC but his leader is the crazy ex-president of Barcelona futbol club and people are crazier than in ERC:

PP is a fascist party.

C's is formed by those right-wing people who don't like fascists and really love spain (spanish nationalists in catalonia).

UPyD is similar to C's but it doesn't stand a chance in catalonia.

Reagrupament is a party created by joan carretero, a former xenophobic leader of ERC that represents the craziest people in catalonia. they are a political version of Batasuna in catalonia.

Plataforma Per Catalunya was a party created by a franquist person, Josep Anglada, that only talks about muslim (they are growing fast in catalonia) and has literally said he would kill all of them if he were the president. PP and PxC are fighting for the xenophobic vote.

Alternativa de Govern is a party created by monserrat nebrera, a sore loser who lost to alicia sanchez camacho for the general secretary pòsition in the PP of catalonia. she'll be lucky to get 0.5% of the vote.

ahahaah PP a fascist party!!  why were they allied to PP during the first Aznar government? So everyone against a strong federalism is fascist?

yes, PP is a afscist party. and it will be a fascist party until people like Jaime Mayor Oreja or Arias Cañete continue in the leadership positions. there's also manuel fraga, who is a former franco minister and is the person who created the party. also, jose maria aznar (the only PP's president of spain) is more conservative thna Jim DeMint and his father was also a fraco's minister . PP, as Le Pen said, is the only "real right" that can win in any state of europe.

As you should know a party has to be judged on the laws it performed, not on the personal background or even the leader's fathers. So, which "fascist" laws PP did in Spain?

There's more to government than simply the enacting of laws.

for example??

for example, jaime mayor oreja, as the minister of interior, made a lot of fascist laws agains nacionalists in Catalunya and the basque country. Mayor Oreja IS fascist. ask him if you want

[ag]

The thing is, in Spain  the true political cleavage has little to do with policy, and a lot to do w/ history and ancestry. I know quite a few Spaniards who would have loved to vote "right" on policy grounds, but would consider it akin to High Treason to actually do so (I have a suspicion, that at least one of them has voted right - but he'll never fess up in public; of course, there is a mirror attitude on the right)).  I believe, some of them go for CiU even if they have no sympathy at all for catalanism: it's just the acceptable right-wing party in Catalonia, in a way that PP is not.

So, when many Spaniards say that PP is fascist, they mean it in a very literal, and not at all a metaphorical sense: it is fascist on the one thing that matters in Spanish politics - attitude to the past.

The fact is, Spanish fascism post-Franco chose to incorporate itself into a democratic polity. And the role, say, of Fraga in this was incredibly important - he is one of those most responsible for the emergence and stability of the Spanish democracy. So, we are now dealing with a "democratic fascism", perfectly adapted to the functioning and even incorporating many of the ideals of the liberal democratic state. However, there has never been any repudiation of the past by the Spanish right. In fact, I am not even convinced that the fascist designation would be truly resisted by much of it (at least, in private). So, PP is, of course, not the Movimento Nacional of the Francoist days, but in more than one sense it is a direct - and proud - political heir.

[Niemeyerite]

The thing is, in Spain  the true political cleavage has little to do with policy, and a lot to do w/ history and ancestry. I know quite a few Spaniards who would have loved to vote "right" on policy grounds, but would consider it akin to High Treason to actually do so (I have a suspicion, that at least one of them has voted right - but he'll never fess up in public; of course, there is a mirror attitude on the right)).  I believe, some of them go for CiU even if they have no sympathy at all for catalanism: it's just the acceptable right-wing party in Catalonia, in a way that PP is not.

So, when many Spaniards say that PP is fascist, they mean it in a very literal, and not at all a metaphorical sense: it is fascist on the one thing that matters in Spanish politics - attitude to the past.

The fact is, Spanish fascism post-Franco chose to incorporate itself into a democratic polity. And the role, say, of Fraga in this was incredibly important - he is one of those most responsible for the emergence and stability of the Spanish democracy. So, we are now dealing with a "democratic fascism", perfectly adapted to the functioning and even incorporating many of the ideals of the liberal democratic state. However, there has never been any repudiation of the past by the Spanish right. In fact, I am not even convinced that the fascist designation would be truly resisted by much of it (at least, in private). So, PP is, of course, not the Movimento Nacional of the Francoist days, but in more than one sense it is a direct - and proud - political heir.

you're probably right. spain is one of the most (if not hte most) polarized countries in the world. it's impossible to reconciliate the left and the right. and, obviously, I hate spanish right, and I hate PP.

[Iannis]

CiU was lefty nationalist, right?

CiU is formed by two parties: UDC and CDC. UDC is very conservative and its leader is Josep Antoni duran i LLeida (who is the leader of CiU in the congress), and CDC claims to be economically conservative and socially liberal (a centrist party). Its leader is Artur Mas. They are regionalist who want to be a country in a far future.

PSC is regionalist and has centre-left views. It's probably more conservative than PSOE, but not by much.

ERC is formed by left nationalist people and majority of their members are crazy.

ICV is the catalonian Izquierda Unida (communists) but they actually are a mix of greenies and communist. its leader is an excellent person and a better politician. I'd support him, but I don't like IU and I think montilla is a great leader who didn't make a great term because of ERC.

SI is like ERC but his leader is the crazy ex-president of Barcelona futbol club and people are crazier than in ERC:

PP is a fascist party.

C's is formed by those right-wing people who don't like fascists and really love spain (spanish nationalists in catalonia).

UPyD is similar to C's but it doesn't stand a chance in catalonia.

Reagrupament is a party created by joan carretero, a former xenophobic leader of ERC that represents the craziest people in catalonia. they are a political version of Batasuna in catalonia.

Plataforma Per Catalunya was a party created by a franquist person, Josep Anglada, that only talks about muslim (they are growing fast in catalonia) and has literally said he would kill all of them if he were the president. PP and PxC are fighting for the xenophobic vote.

Alternativa de Govern is a party created by monserrat nebrera, a sore loser who lost to alicia sanchez camacho for the general secretary pòsition in the PP of catalonia. she'll be lucky to get 0.5% of the vote.

ahahaah PP a fascist party!!  why were they allied to PP during the first Aznar government? So everyone against a strong federalism is fascist?

yes, PP is a afscist party. and it will be a fascist party until people like Jaime Mayor Oreja or Arias Cañete continue in the leadership positions. there's also manuel fraga, who is a former franco minister and is the person who created the party. also, jose maria aznar (the only PP's president of spain) is more conservative thna Jim DeMint and his father was also a fraco's minister . PP, as Le Pen said, is the only "real right" that can win in any state of europe.

As you should know a party has to be judged on the laws it performed, not on the personal background or even the leader's fathers. So, which "fascist" laws PP did in Spain?

There's more to government than simply the enacting of laws.

for example??

for example, jaime mayor oreja, as the minister of interior, made a lot of fascist laws agains nacionalists in Catalunya and the basque country. Mayor Oreja IS fascist. ask him if you want

specify why you call them "fascist laws", what do they consist of?