Lindsey Graham wants Iran war

[tpfkaw]

Actually, Hamas was initially created and funded by the Israeli government, because they thought a rival group to the PLO would cause the Palestinians to fight amongst each other (which was actually correct, as we've seen).  But that's neither here nor there.

My question is, did those nefarious Muhammadeans suddenly decide in the mid-20th century, for no reason at all, that they really hated Jews and Americans?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

2014 cannot come fast enough. I want to bid nutcase Graham his farewells already.

And furthermore, IRAN is not a threat. Their attention whore leader is a threat, but we can't do anything about him without going into another full-scale war that we won't be able to afford for the next couple centuries.

Of course Iran is not a thread to the U.S.

However, I wouldn't call Mr. Attention Whore a "leader of Iran". The non-flashy old guy is the one.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Actually, Hamas was initially created and funded by the Israeli government, because they thought a rival group to the PLO would cause the Palestinians to fight amongst each other (which was actually correct, as we've seen).  But that's neither here nor there.

My question is, did those nefarious Muhammadeans suddenly decide in the mid-20th century, for no reason at all, that they really hated Jews and Americans?

Well, just for starters, as far as I know, they always hated Jews (I may be wrong). However, and I will admit this, Israel was, to them, a crime, and I woudl interpret it that way too if I was suddenly shoved off my property to make way for a new country. As for America, I believe that at least a part of this is all about Jihad, and how a radical part of Muslims believe that America is an afront to Islam one because it is not an Islam controlled country, and two because of our (alleged or not) moral depravity. Also, from what I've heard, is that during the sixties, American hippies went over to Afghanistan to get opium, and it created the impression among the people over there that we are a very imoral country.

[dead0man]

Actually, Hamas was initially created and funded by the Israeli government, because they thought a rival group to the PLO would cause the Palestinians to fight amongst each other (which was actually correct, as we've seen).  But that's neither here nor there.

uuu no.  Hamas was certainly not "created by" Israel and while they may or may not have sent them a little money and/or encouraged them against the PLO, that certainly hasn't been the case for a long long time.

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Of course they have their reasons, people (especially groups of people over an extended period of time) don't usually commit murder without reason.  Those damned infidel Jews settled on their land and were at first supported by Europe and then after the Euros lost their will, the US.  After repeatedly getting their (the Muslim states) asses kicked (despite manpower, funding, training and weapons from the Soviet Union) and losing more land in the process (and doing their own screwing of the Palestinians), they've decided to kill Jews by proxy instead of trying to do it themselves.

[WillK]

Well, just for starters, as far as I know, they always hated Jews (I may be wrong).

I vote for wrong.

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Those in the middle east give a sh**t about our moral depravity, except for our lack of morals in killing people in the middle east.   Their hatred of the US is all derived from US policy and actions in the middle east. 

[Nhoj]

Actually, Hamas was initially created and funded by the Israeli government, because they thought a rival group to the PLO would cause the Palestinians to fight amongst each other (which was actually correct, as we've seen).  But that's neither here nor there.

uuu no.  Hamas was certainly not "created by" Israel and while they may or may not have sent them a little money and/or encouraged them against the PLO, that certainly hasn't been the case for a long long time.

Iran had nothing to do with hamas origins either, which you almost seem to be saying. [They likely do partially fund them now]

[CARLHAYDEN]

Alas, its four years until the people of South Carolina get to vote to get rid of this sociopath.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=135516503144467&v=app_2373072738

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Alas, its four years until the people of South Carolina get to vote to get rid of this sociopath.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=135516503144467&v=app_2373072738

I think Graham has got to be tied with Lieberman for worst sociopath in the Senate.

[Silent Hunter]

No. The Middle East and pretty much all of Africa are the real threats.

Please explain that unless you're joking. Is Botswana a threat? Lesotho? Guinea-Bissau? Qatar? Oman?

[dead0man]

Actually, Hamas was initially created and funded by the Israeli government, because they thought a rival group to the PLO would cause the Palestinians to fight amongst each other (which was actually correct, as we've seen).  But that's neither here nor there.

uuu no.  Hamas was certainly not "created by" Israel and while they may or may not have sent them a little money and/or encouraged them against the PLO, that certainly hasn't been the case for a long long time.

Iran had nothing to do with hamas origins either, which you almost seem to be saying.

Nope, not all.  My apologies if it came across that way.  I'm just saying that Israel didn't create them.

[Sbane]

Lindsey!  You know you're still gonna lose your primary, right?  Chill man, take it easy

Unless we have evidence that Iran is preparing to use the bomb for more than deterrence, then it isn't worth the cost.

I didn't get the impression he felt that way by his words.

[Sbane]

Actually, Hamas was initially created and funded by the Israeli government, because they thought a rival group to the PLO would cause the Palestinians to fight amongst each other (which was actually correct, as we've seen).  But that's neither here nor there.

My question is, did those nefarious Muhammadeans suddenly decide in the mid-20th century, for no reason at all, that they really hated Jews and Americans?

Well, just for starters, as far as I know, they always hated Jews (I may be wrong). However, and I will admit this, Israel was, to them, a crime, and I woudl interpret it that way too if I was suddenly shoved off my property to make way for a new country. As for America, I believe that at least a part of this is all about Jihad, and how a radical part of Muslims believe that America is an afront to Islam one because it is not an Islam controlled country, and two because of our (alleged or not) moral depravity. Also, from what I've heard, is that during the sixties, American hippies went over to Afghanistan to get opium, and it created the impression among the people over there that we are a very imoral country.

First of all Muslims do not hate inherently hate Jews. Not anymore than Christians (or anyone else) that is. That is just neoconservative/Republican propaganda.

Secondly these groups that attack us around the world don't care about our people's personal morals, but rather they are pissed off at immoral US foreign policy. We help the Israelis, give them weapons, coddle them at the UN while doing nothing at all for the Palestinians. Some presidents give the Palestinians lip service, while others like Bush just allow Israel to run rough shod over them. We let Israel build settlement after settlement while getting some bureaucrat to release an "official statement" condemning it. But we don't do anything to stop it. And if one Palestinian blows up a bus, it's a green light for the Israeli army to go in to Palestine and commit as many atrocities as their heart desires.

[The Mikado]

What's with this "Muslims always hated Jews" stuff?  Just 100 years ago, Baghdad was one of the most Jewish cities in the world, and vast Jewish communities from Yemen to Morocco were flourishing.

[Dgov]

What's with this "Muslims always hated Jews" stuff?  Just 100 years ago, Baghdad was one of the most Jewish cities in the world, and vast Jewish communities from Yemen to Morocco were flourishing.

Of course they didn't always hate the Jews.  Medieval Islam was far and away more tolerant that Medieval Christianity.  The Problem is, and has always really boiled down to, Israel.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Lindsey!  You know you're still gonna lose your primary, right?  Chill man, take it easy

Unless we have evidence that Iran is preparing to use the bomb for more than deterrence, then it isn't worth the cost.

I didn't get the impression he felt that way by his words.

I do think he is less sanguine about the sanity of the Iranian leadership than I am, but it's not as if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will ever have a say about whether an Iranian bomb gets used.  If that were the case, I'd agree that there was a serious problem that might merit an attack as soon as we were prepared for the attack and its consequences.  Neither Ali Khamenei nor any of the people likely to succeed him are crazy enough to use a nuke.  It would certainly ease things if Khamenei were to die or resign in the next few years as the current Assembly of Experts would probably select someone more moderate.

[© tweed]

the US has repeated refused Iran's offer of Middle East NWFZ that includes Israel - against the wishes of virtually the rest of the world. the rest of the argument is show and games.