What is Prison for?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

As it says on the tin.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Punishment. The notion of rehabilitation seems silly if one has been sentenced to life in prison or to death.

[Хahar 🤔]

Ideally both.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Ideally both.

[tpfkaw]

Ideally both.

Along with the third purpose, which is to keep dangerous people out of society.

[John Dibble]

False dichotomy. It could be both and other things as well, not limited to those two. For instance one purpose I think it serves, at least in an ideal world, is to keep dangerous people who have proven they are not willing to live in civilized society through actions such as murder or rape away from the general public. That has nothing to do with punishment or rehabilitation, but it's a rather clear purpose that prison can serve.

[memphis]

It's a holding place for dangerous people who would otherwise make the outside world more dangerous.

[J. J.]

It's a holding place for dangerous people who would otherwise make the outside world more dangerous.

When why do the put prostitutes and people that launder money there?

It is a place for punishment, primarily.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In theory the modern prison is for rehabilitation, although that's changed somewhat since the abolition of the death penalty in decent places. In practice things have always been different.

[minionofmidas]

Originally? There are several historical roots. In roughly chronological order: Holding people for ransom, holding them while determining their verdict, and "correction" (not quite the same thing as "rehabilitation", but close enough). Using prison as punishment is, essentially, an abuse of the institution.

[??????????]

In theory the modern prison is for rehabilitation, although that's changed somewhat since the abolition of the death penalty in decent places. In practice things have always been different.

What do you mean by "modern"? Philadelphia was trying to rehabilitate its' prisoners way back in the 1830s. I don't really know how European prisons work though. The punishment side of prison (as we know it) is a late 19th/20th century sort of thing (at least here).

[minionofmidas]

In theory the modern prison is for rehabilitation, although that's changed somewhat since the abolition of the death penalty in decent places. In practice things have always been different.

What do you mean by "modern"? Philadelphia was trying to rehabilitate its' prisoners way back in the 1830s. I don't really know how European prisons work though. The punishment side of prison (as we know it) is a late 19th/20th century sort of thing (at least here).

The way I learned it, the idea was born in the Calvinist Netherlands of the 17th century - Where, incidentally, the line between prison and poorhouse wasn't very clearly drawn - but took a moment to catch on elsewhere - longer in Germany than in Britain or France (so we kept branding and the pillory longer than our western neighbors). I think we're using modern in the sense of "ever since then".

There's one aspect of premodern imprisonment I didn't previously mention - in order that people couldnt run away while doing time as forced labourers. That use existed in 18th century Frankfurt.

[??????????]

Using prison as punishment is, essentially, an abuse of the institution.

I see your point but what do you do with prisoners who are mentally incapable of being rehabilitated?

[minionofmidas]

Using prison as punishment is, essentially, an abuse of the institution.

I see your point but what do you do with prisoners who are mentally incapable of being rehabilitated?

"Abuse" may have been too strong a word - it wasn't originally part of the package (we had other punishments around, notably death), but for obvious reasons it was always seen as such by prisoners themselves, and it just crept in. That's all I meant. Not that it needs to be put a stop to ASAP.

Do people who are "mentally incapable" of being rehabilitated exist? Sure. I guess. A few. A certain type of repeat violent sex offenders being a classic example. These people are mentally ill - I'm not sure what prison has to offer that asylum confinement doesn't - even if we give up the notion that they might be "healed".

---digression, quoting wiki...

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According to an EuGH verdict they need to rework the terms of it somewhat - make it more different from prison, basically. It's very rare.

---end of digression
But normal repeat offenders are not "incapable" of "reintegrating" ... it gets ever harder the less skills you have and the worse your upbringing and the less your moral scruples, sure. Especially if the government basically stops caring about you the minute they release you. Or even if all and any government offers are either a) compulsory or b) require considerable effort on your part to get in touch with.
No simple solutions to the issue, obviously.

[??????????]

We actually agree a lot on this issue, ftr.

[Dr. Cynic]

Ideally both. There are some prisoners who cannot be rehabilitated, but those that can be, should be.

[opebo]

Neither, obviously. 

The purpose of prison is control.