Do you support the trade embargo on Cuba?

[Torie]

The negative impact of the embargo on the US economy is about the equivalent of one day of the effect of Obama's deficit spending these days. I mean, what does Cuba have to sell that US consumers want, other than cigars?  (Sugar is out because the sugar industry keeps imports out period from everywhere.)  I am willing to cut my consumption of pot down by a bowl a day to help pay for it, to boot. Deal?  

My point was joking.  Although having open trade with Cuba over the last 60 years would translate to more of a benefit than you depict, I think my arguments and critiques in the posts above can sustain themselves in even a world where there is an insignificant economic impact on the United States

p.s. I like deficit spending during recessions  But they require long-term plans to reduce the deficit afterwards, which, as indicated by Bush's tax cuts, invasion of Iraq, and Medicare spending, all of which was deficit spending that dwarfs Obama's deficit spending, no such political will exists even among alleged fiscal conservatives.  So there's a dilemma.

Do you like deficit spending channeled to keeping over paid public employees overpaid, and over employed?  Just asking.

I take it you think there is no merit whatsoever to supply side economics, or next to no merit, per you dig at the Bush tax cuts. Is that a fair statement?  In any event, not too many fiscal conservatives have much of a brief for Bush these days. He was indeed part of the problem.  That prescription drug thing for the geezers was just awful, and Bush's numbers as to what it would in fact cost, have proven to be just a phony as Obama's numbers, which are frankly, a joke, except that nobody is laughing.

[Lunar]

This has veered off into deficit spending.  And anyway, we're two ships passing in the night on the issue.  I was trying to make a point that I kind of like Keynesian spending supposing it's corresponded with corresponding deficit-reduction plans later, which may not actually be feasible in our political system...

let's go back to Cuba

[Torie]

To Torie...people have been saying that Castro will die any day now for literally my entire lifetime.  The old bastard might outlive all of us due to sheer cussedness and his apparent deal with the devil.

Yes, sometimes I think the odds that the devil exists are somewhat higher than the odds that God exists. But the bastard will die, or totally lose sentience, which is the next best thing.

[Torie]

This has veered off into deficit spending.  And anyway, we're two ships passing in the night on the issue.  I was trying to make a point that I kind of like Keynesian spending supposing it's corresponded with corresponding deficit-reduction plans later, which may not actually be feasible in our political system...

let's go back to Cuba

Yes I know. You might have just as well have copied and pasted Opebo's posts on this, and I have read most of them, since most of them on this matter  were directed at me. But the sheer volume of posts per se is not necessarily a good indicator of the odds that they might persuade me.

[Lunar]

You're really latching onto these side-issues this evening, eh?

[Torie]

You're really latching onto these side-issues this evening, eh?

I not only have a wandering eye; I have a wandering mind. Deal with it.

Anyway, it was you, yes you, that opened up this side line of inquiry about economics. When you open a matter up, it ceases to be a matter for objection when the other side launches its own little counter-attack, as irrelevant in court, not only in the legal context, but also in the court of public opinion. Let that be a lesson to you Lunar. Tactics, tactics, tactics.

[Bo]

Yes. How about Cuba implements some reforms first, and then the embargo can be removed. Besides, the U.S. doesn't need Cuba economically.

[Magic 8-Ball]

Indy - No.

[RosettaStoned]

Constitution-no.

[Derek]

I'm on the fence.

Would be funnier if this debate were about immigration policy.

Hahahaha oh man a candidate saying he's on the fence when it comes to immigration. I'd like to see Cuba have freedom before anything but working with someone never hurt for a little bit.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Stupid and useless. Unless I missed something, the embargo has been set almost 50 years and a Castro still rules the country.

[Cubby]

No, I don't support it.

Unless we also ban all trade with China and Vietnam then we are being enormous hypocrites.

I'm sure it would be a wonderful place to visit today, like a time capsule from the 50's, but the suffering the embargo has caused the Cuban people is obviously not worth it. I'm not blaming us for all their troubles over the years, but its certainly been a big factor.

[Jensen]

Yes, for human rights reasons.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No.  Lift it now.

Et tu Grumps?  

Yes, sir, without a doubt.  And we need to get the Senate off of their ass to pass any other pending Free Trade agreements.   Besides,  a nice Cuban cigar this weekend would have been lovely.  

[Edit] -  And Torie, after all these years the value of making a point is long gone.  Let's lift the embargo and have OUR goods funnel into Cuba......I think there is little they have that we want, but why can't our goods and services flow into Cuba.  It would be one of the few times we're coming out ahead in trading.

Oh, and who is that the Hollywood elite get down on their knees to service and is responsible for CITGO gas?

While we're at it,  let's make a point with the ChiComm's, and Russia, and blah blah blah.

[Хahar 🤔]

Oppose

Since at least the 1870s, everything that has happened in Cuba has happened as a result of American policy. This includes the current government.

[Free Palestine]

The embargo hurts the Cuban people.  It does nothing to hurt the government, and there is no reason why we should punish the people of Cuba for human rights violations by the Cuban government, which have nothing at all to do with the U.S.

[Verily]

What's the argument FOR it, again, which doesn't apply more so to countries we freely trade with?

"It's the way things have always been."

"They're dirty commies."

[Mint]

No, just levy tariffs on their goods instead.

[Mechaman]

No.

Hell, we could do a lot more damage by trading with them and taking over the spirits of their citizens by how much superior American goods are to Cuban goods (except for the cigars of course.....)

[Frink]

Much like the slow opening of China (starting with Nixon), opening up Cuba to trade can only benefit their people. I can see an argument for it during the Cold War, but that piece of history shouldn't influence our current policy.

[k-onmmunist]

Obv. not

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

What's the argument FOR it, again, which doesn't apply more so to countries we freely trade with?

"It's the way things have always been."

"They're dirty commies."

You forgot:

"We'll teach Castro a lesson" 

[feeblepizza]

I oppose it vehemently. We need to stop being so stuck-up when it comes to other nations and their form of govt. It's their govt., and it's got nothing to do with how much of their crack oil agricultural products we can rake in.