in rare foray into policy, NAS recommends carbon tax/cap-and-trade

[Marokai Backbeat]

Who's behind the conspiracy anyway?

climate change deniers just like to create hysterics over society's potential rational response to climate change, and they probably do this because they are afraid.

Wrong.  Climate change ALARMISTS just like to create hysterics to push their radical anti-capitalist, pro-third world agenda. 

There are no words..

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

Who's behind the conspiracy anyway?

climate change deniers just like to create hysterics over society's potential rational response to climate change, and they probably do this because they are afraid.

Wrong.  Climate change ALARMISTS just like to create hysterics to push their radical anti-capitalist, pro-third world agenda.  

As to why "scientists" believe this, there's no money in funding research disproving anthropogenic global warming.   The overwhelming majority of research grants go to those who have drunk the green kool aid.

You alarmists are losing in the court of public opinion - starting in the UK and moving here.  Making up "science" to "hide the decline" can only work for so long before the rest of us catch on.

nah climate change deniers are the ones creating hysterics. They often pretend that society will respond by destroying freedom, and creating a police state in order to combat climate change. Pretty funny since the only policy that is been suggested is cap&trade. Thus i am still wondering how cap&trade is going to create another great depression/police state?

In any event most climate change deniers come off as pretty stupid, and it is becoming more clear to me that they don't even understand some of the basics.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

Climate change dentists make a huge fallacy when they misrepresent the other sides take on the subject.

[Sewer]

Whatever you call it the fact remains that it's just a political ploy by those in power to coerce people to give up their individual rights.

Give up what individual rights?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Climate change dentists make a huge fallacy when they misrepresent the other sides take on the subject.

Both sides misrepresent the other.

First off, there are hardly any people who literally deny climate change.  The climate is changing - that's not a debatable issue.  Any homeless guy with a thermometer who took measurements for the past 80 years could tell you this.

So scientists who believe CC is caused by humans (we'll abbreviate that as HCCC from now on) often misrepresent those who believe CC is caused by natural causes (NCCC).  They claim that NCCCers are ignoring scientific facts.

Whether or not CC is human caused or naturally caused is still very much up for debate.

And even if the HCCCers are correct, there is absolutely NO way of predicting how bad global temperature changes could possibly get.  We don't know if the correlation between greenhouse gases and global temperature are always linear.  Once temperatures rise above the point that we have observed them in the past, we then begin making predictions using extrapolation methods in a field where we already understand relatively little about how things work.

We don't know if negative atmospheric feedback mechanisms will kick in as the dominant feedback mechanisms after a certain global temperature point.

My point is that both sides state their claims as fact, and quiet honestly, both sides know relatively little about what will happen in the future - it's not an easy science, and we're crossing into territory we've never observed, and that makes it all the harder.

[WillK]

Climate change dentists make a huge fallacy when they misrepresent the other sides take on the subject.

Both sides misrepresent the other.

First off, there are hardly any people who literally deny climate change. The climate is changing - that's not a debatable issue.

I have encountered quite a lot who do deny and debate this.

[WillK]

Whatever you call it the fact remains that it's just a political ploy by those in power to coerce people to give up their individual rights.

Give up what individual rights?

The right to pollute. 

[cinyc]

Whatever you call it the fact remains that it's just a political ploy by those in power to coerce people to give up their individual rights.

Give up what individual rights?

The right to pollute.  

If carbon dioxide is a pollutant, then you're a polluter.  By your logic, you have no right to breathe.

[Torie]

Dems (most of them it seems anyway) apparently have almost a fatal attraction to cap and trade - a profoundly unwise idea. It just doesn't pencil, and will be horrifically expensive, and put more pressure on the standard of living, which is already under extreme pressure, which will get worse, particularly as wages shoot up in China and India.

[WillK]

Whatever you call it the fact remains that it's just a political ploy by those in power to coerce people to give up their individual rights.

Give up what individual rights?

The right to pollute.  

If carbon dioxide is a pollutant, then you're a polluter.  By your logic, you have no right to breathe.

That might be your logic, but its certainly not mine. 

[Хahar 🤔]

Wrong.  Climate change ALARMISTS just like to create hysterics to push their radical anti-capitalist, pro-third world agenda. 

Agreed. The Third World is evil.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Reading the posts in this thread is perhaps the greatest argument ever for the existence of global warming. Forget the science, just look at the shrill unintellectual 'denial' of those who are arguing against GW. You can almost hear the emotional sentimental inanities of a character in a bad B-Movie about the life of, say, Gailieo "Of course that's preposterous. Everyone knows that sun revolves around the Earth. AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T IS INVOLVED IS A GIANT SATANTIC PROTESTANT CONSPIRACY. WHY DO YOU WORSHIP SATAN, GAILIEO? PROTESTANT LOVER!!!1".

I will note again that I am in fact agnostic on the whole existence of global warming.

[Torie]

Reading the posts in this thread is perhaps the greatest argument ever for the existence of global warming. Forget the science, just look at the shrill unintellectual 'denial' of those who are arguing against GW. You can almost hear the emotional sentimental inanities of a character in a bad B-Movie about the life of, say, Gailieo "Of course that's preposterous. Everyone knows that sun revolves around the Earth. AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T IS INVOLVED IS A GIANT SATANTIC PROTESTANT CONSPIRACY. WHY DO YOU WORSHIP SATAN, GAILIEO? PROTESTANT LOVER!!!1".

I will note again that I am in fact agnostic on the whole existence of global warming.

You clearly have more of a talent at composing hyperbole than any of us could ever hope to even approach, much less match.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Reading the posts in this thread is perhaps the greatest argument ever for the existence of global warming. Forget the science, just look at the shrill unintellectual 'denial' of those who are arguing against GW. You can almost hear the emotional sentimental inanities of a character in a bad B-Movie about the life of, say, Gailieo "Of course that's preposterous. Everyone knows that sun revolves around the Earth. AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T IS INVOLVED IS A GIANT SATANTIC PROTESTANT CONSPIRACY. WHY DO YOU WORSHIP SATAN, GAILIEO? PROTESTANT LOVER!!!1".

I will note again that I am in fact agnostic on the whole existence of global warming.

You clearly have more of a talent at composing hyperbole than any of us could ever hope to even approach, much less match.

I just report the way I see things. Tbh apart from the opening sentence, I don't see too much exaggeration given the thread.