How long before Bush breaks even on jobs?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 23, 2024, 06:44:14 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
  How long before Bush breaks even on jobs?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: How long before Bush breaks even on jobs?  (Read 2030 times)
Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,368
United Kingdom


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 13, 2004, 03:24:44 AM »

Simple enough question.
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,781


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 04:09:22 AM »

Eh...not before the election. Tongue And that is all that matters, at least as far as this part of the forum is concerned.
Logged
MODU
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,023
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 08:12:15 AM »



At the current rate of approximately 100K/month - it will take 8 months.
Logged
Friar
Rookie
**
Posts: 129


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 08:58:53 AM »

He won't.

He's got just 3 more months and he needs something like 800K jobs or so.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 01:55:52 PM »

Mid-2005, probably

Even if Bush loses the election, it'll still be the Bush/GOP economy for at least eight more months
Logged
opebo
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 47,009


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2004, 04:34:32 AM »

He won't.

He's got just 3 more months and he needs something like 800K jobs or so.

Hah.. I hope you are right.

Anyway job creation is going to trend downwards now for a while, maybe even go negative. 
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,837


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2004, 02:28:05 PM »

Not before his Presidency is up.
Logged
TomC
TCash101
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,976


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2004, 03:50:07 PM »

I think we've seen the best part of this recovery. Future layoffs (announcements) are up, gas prices are up, by Jan, rates will have been rising for 6 months, health care costs are eating more of the family budget, charts of the major indices suggest to my eye that we're headed down more before we're headed up. Home buying will slow (even if prices don't drop much) because of higher rates. I think we are going to have a tough year or two no matter who wins the Presidency.

I hope it's Kerry because his relief will be more directed at the middle class. If American history proves anything, it is that business has a better shot at getting money from the middle class than the middle class has at getting money from business. Money trickles up, not down. Don't get me wrong- no President can make a bad economy totally better on his own, but he can make somewhat of a difference, even if it is bolstering consumer confidence.

Anyway, I'm not comfortable saying these jobs will be regained real soon. Growth isn't great but it is about to slow.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2004, 06:50:53 PM »

I think we've seen the best part of this recovery. Future layoffs (announcements) are up, gas prices are up, by Jan, rates will have been rising for 6 months, health care costs are eating more of the family budget, charts of the major indices suggest to my eye that we're headed down more before we're headed up. Home buying will slow (even if prices don't drop much) because of higher rates. I think we are going to have a tough year or two no matter who wins the Presidency.

I hope it's Kerry because his relief will be more directed at the middle class. If American history proves anything, it is that business has a better shot at getting money from the middle class than the middle class has at getting money from business. Money trickles up, not down. Don't get me wrong- no President can make a bad economy totally better on his own, but he can make somewhat of a difference, even if it is bolstering consumer confidence.

Anyway, I'm not comfortable saying these jobs will be regained real soon. Growth isn't great but it is about to slow.

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

Nice to see you back, TCash. Here's hoping you stick around.
Logged
A18
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,794
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2004, 06:52:47 PM »

I don't think even Kerry would choke off this economy, for the simple reason that Congress is staying Republican
Logged
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2004, 07:17:14 PM »

On the household survey, he is already ahead.  Don't let facts get in the way of Bush-bashing.
Logged
James46
Rookie
**
Posts: 33
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2004, 01:01:45 AM »

Bush has US going in right direction.  It is amazing to me that he has done so well, given the devastation of 9-11.  Kerry conveniently forgets about the impact 9-11 had on economy.  Fairer measure is last year or two.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2004, 01:24:59 AM »
« Edited: October 15, 2004, 01:28:31 AM by SCJ Nym90 »

On the household survey, he is already ahead.  Don't let facts get in the way of Bush-bashing.

This article is from http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/03/bls_on_payroll_.html

----

BLS on Payroll vs. Household Survey
The Bureau of Labor Statistics weighs in on the now thoroughly discredited Payroll vs. Household Survey pseudo-controversy.

Economists Arnold Kling and Steve Antler each point to a recent Bureau of Labor Statistics analysis on the divergence between the payroll survey and the household survey of employment. The BLS (led by the hardly apolitcal Elaine Chao) observes:

"As part of its annual review of intercensal population estimates, the U.S. Census Bureau determined that a downward adjustment should be made to the household survey population controls. This adjustment stemmed from revised estimates of net international migration for 2000 through 2003. In keeping with usual practice, the new controls were used in the survey starting with data for January 2004. Estimates for December 2003 and earlier months were not revised to reflect the new (lower) population controls.

...As a convenience to its data users, BLS created a research series that smoothes the level shifts in employment resulting from the January 2000, 2003, and 2004 population control adjustments."
--BLS



Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has noted that the Payroll survey is much more reliable than the household survey. That hasn't stopped several economists -- some of whom have an explicit political agenda -- from arguing that the divergence between the two surveys is understating the strength of the economy.

As if Greenspan didn't resolve the issue in his recent statements, the BLS itself has now weighed in. As these following charts make clear, when "modified to make it more "similar in concept and definition" to the payroll survey," the divergement all but disappears.

The BLS did this by subtracting from the Household Survey:

1) Total agriculture and related employment;
2) Self-employed, unpaid family and private household workers (nonagriculture);
3) Workers absent without pay from their jobs.

BLS then added back in nonagriculture wage and salary multiple job holders.

The use of the broader standard (including farm and unpaid family workers) is what apparently created the divergement, as shown by the Green lines. Using data "similar in concept and definition" to the Payroll Survey "magically" eliminates the phantom missing jobs, as seen in the Red lines:



Household and Payroll Survey employment, Seasonally Adjusted, 1994-2004 
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, March 5, 2004

The BLS notes about both charts (above and below): The household series presented here has been smoothed for population control revisions. The "adjusted" household series has been smoothed for population control revisions and adjusted to an employment concept more similar to the payroll survey. Shaded area indicates recession.



Household and Payroll Survey employment, Seasonally Adjusted, March 2001 - February 2004


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, March 5, 2004



The BLS has now formally resolved the Household/Payroll Survey discrepancy. Let's see who has the intellectually honesty to step up to the plate with a big mea culpa. You may assume any of the original advocates of this now totally untenable position who adhere to it are little more than partisan hacks, and disregard them as appropriate.

Logged
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2004, 03:38:46 AM »

You're right.  The household survey is so thouroghly discredited that it could never be used for something serious like calculating the unemployment rate. Tongue
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2004, 10:08:30 AM »

You're right.  The household survey is so thouroghly discredited that it could never be used for something serious like calculating the unemployment rate. Tongue

I do believe it is less accurate than the payroll survey for the reasons listed, and for what it's worth, so does Alan Greenspan as well as the Labor Dept.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.242 seconds with 15 queries.