Republicans: "torture worked on McCain", "he's dying anyways"

[ProudModerate2]

Disgusting and sick, but not shocking.
Also, note that the news story states:

The (White House) official said Sadler, who is in charge of surrogate communications, meant it as a joke, "but it fell flat."

[ProudModerate2]

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[ProudModerate2]

... but reasonable people should be able to agree that these kind of remarks are inappropriate (and you've just deflected from the actual subject at hand).

The latent admiration and defense of McCain doesn’t impress me in the least bit. The only reason you like him now is because he nemesized Trump in his final years, and is basically dying a Democrat. Unlike a lot of red avatars on here, I choose to remember 2008 and the vicious things you all said about him back then (when you weren’t slut-shaming his running mate’s 17-year-old daughter, that is).

And for some of the vile and downright evil sh**t that is said about President Trump and his family on this forum, I think you people should be the last ones to criticize the tastelessness of any joke.

McCain has always been someone who, unlike Trump, wants the best for America and has integrity. He's made plenty of mistakes, and Obama was by far the better choice in 2008, but he has a much better character and would have been a better President than Trump.

Let me go get my violin. I’m sure his integrity was the first thing on your mind when you were calling him a war criminal and his wife a junkie. Just go on YouTube and search Bill Maher 2008 Election and tell me how much you people respected him then. But hey, you’re a good liberal...never let history or the facts get in the way of your current agenda.

So, what’s your opinion of these comments?

[ProudModerate2]

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[ProudModerate2]

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I gotta disagree with Biden here.  This administration always has the ability to go even lower.

When I read the first part of your comment, I was confused.
But then reading your second sentence made me LOL.
Yes ... I agree. Every month, this administration finds itself hitting new lows of disgrace. The Orange Clown and his administration wont hit "rock bottom" until the last day of office (Jan 19, 2021).

[ProudModerate2]

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Meghan McCain's issue on this matter should be with the leakers, and the leakers, alone.

Who the hell are you to say what Meghan McCain should or should not do? No, the “leak” is not that main issue here and you know that.

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Actually, he is. Meghan’s argument is that Trump allows this type of toxic environment to exist within his administration. And this is a fact - from foreign agent Flynn to wife-beater Porter to the incredibly corrupt Cabinet officials from Pruitt to Prince, it most certainly is Trump’s fault for letting a band of grifters, racists, wife-beaters and other bottom-feeders into his administration. And, it’s also an indictment on many of his supporters for being ok with this and for not having the moral courage to admit the truth that most Americans can see.

Since you seem to be crowing about the “leakers”, let’s take a another creature from Trump’s swamp - Rob Porter. As you know, he was a wife-beater and that information was leaked to the public. However, Trump was aware of this and had no intention of removing him before it leaked. Thanks to the leak, he was removed. Exact same situation with Mike Flynn. If not for the leak, we’d still have a foreign agent as NSA.

I realize this is the low-intellect argument pushed by Trump/Fox News (“It’s not the criminal - it’s the leaker!”) but this type of argument won’t persuade any reasonable person. And deep down, you know that

Meghan McCain has legit issues with Trump, but not on this particular matter.  What she does about it is her business, but she has no issue with Trump on this particular incident.

Mr. Porter is a separate issue.

This leak was wrong.  Period.  The leakers are the problem, not Ms. Sadler.  This isn't an issue of leaking misconduct; it's justifying disloyal conduct to get a juicy tidbit of uncomplimentary news to beat Trump (who didn't make the comment) over the head with.

I stand by everything I've posted on this topic.  If I'm the only one in all of Atlas, so be it.

Nope, wrong again. The only thing that is a “separate issue” is leaking. Whether or not the leak was justified is not the main issue here.

The issue is the ghoulish comments that were made and more importantly, the type of environment that exists currently in the White House and the sorts of creatures this administration attracts. I want you to answer these questions

1. Were these comments appropriate?
2. Why is this type of behavior allowed/commonplace in this WH and do you think Trump’s rhetoric has anything to do with it?
3. Would Jesus Christ approve of these comments?

Now, you just said

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Really? You are aware Kelly Sadler called the McCain family to apologize. Whoops. So much for that argument

Of course trump is to blame.
Once again, FuzzyBear trying to explain-it-away with his wishy-washy ways of deflection and deception.

[ProudModerate2]

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The level of idiocy at the White House is beyond anything normal on our planet.
Regular folk don't go around talking in "private" meetings about how other's dying relatives is funny. If I was in such a meeting, I would be gasped in horror by such a comment. (I have been in many management level meetings my entire life.)
But I guess if the private meeting room is filled with nothing but grotesque monsters, then it is to be expected (Birds of the same feather ...).

[ProudModerate2]

Fuzzy, I really don't get how you can get upset at comments like "guns and religion" for being pejorative to people like you, and not be upset about comments like this because they were said behind closed doors. That seems really warped to me. The main reason people are upset at this isn't because someone said something mean, it's because it reveals an incredibly callous, inhumane view of a colleague that trivializes suffering they experienced, and a generally cruel and dismissive attitude towards people they are supposed to be working together with to enact policy. The setting and the manner through which it became available are inconsequential.

And yes, leaking to the press has always been around in politics. It's incredibly naive and absurd to assume that this leak is unique in the history of White House coverage. Giuliani, Kushner, Kelly, and even Trump likely leak things to the press all the time. Your hypothetical about leaks in the Obama administration is moot because those leaks certainly did happen.

And we never gave Obama a free pass when they occurred. The G&R comment, though understandable, made me and a whole bunch of people very concerned.

Fuzzy has a perverted way of explaining right from wrong.
In the same sentence, he will tell you how wrong something/someone is, but then tell you how it's OK and acceptable. He did this with Roy Moore (Alabama Senate race) in where he both demonized him and rejoiced his warped religious ways (anti-LGTB policies, etc).
He did this with his constant rhetoric (and endless articles) of how awful the MS-13 gangs are ("brown people"), but then dispel the same evil from white-supremacists gangs.
All this, while using religion, Bible quotes and Jesus to oddly justify it all.

[ProudModerate2]

Most folks here would have been livid if an uncomplimentary comment in an Obama staff meeting was leaked.  Trump is different, however; folks really believe that anything that brings America closer to driving Trump from office is morally OK.

I guess that's the prevailing morality around #TheResistance.  I suppose I'll have something to tell my great grandchildren when all is said and done.

Not true.
I have seen time and again, how red (Dem) Atlas avatars are quick to condemn bad behavior of gov officials of their same party.
If this happened in the Obama admin, I seriously doubt the aide would still have a job. But with management officials supervising the Orange Clown's people, it's just ignored. I wouldn't doubt if most of the people in the White House are going around giving Kelly Sadler "high-fives" and a pat-on-the-back for her disgusting comments.
Hell, they might even give her a raise.

[ProudModerate2]

Fuzzy, I really don't get how you can get upset at comments like "guns and religion" for being pejorative to people like you, and not be upset about comments like this because they were said behind closed doors. That seems really warped to me. The main reason people are upset at this isn't because someone said something mean, it's because it reveals an incredibly callous, inhumane view of a colleague that trivializes suffering they experienced, and a generally cruel and dismissive attitude towards people they are supposed to be working together with to enact policy. The setting and the manner through which it became available are inconsequential.

And yes, leaking to the press has always been around in politics. It's incredibly naive and absurd to assume that this leak is unique in the history of White House coverage. Giuliani, Kushner, Kelly, and even Trump likely leak things to the press all the time. Your hypothetical about leaks in the Obama administration is moot because those leaks certainly did happen.

And we never gave Obama a free pass when they occurred. The G&R comment, though understandable, made me and a whole bunch of people very concerned.

Obama's "guns and religion" comment was made by Obama, at an open mic.  As are Trump's insulting comments.  

This comment was made by a staffer, in a private meeting.  Is nothing private?  

Political hacks are human.  This was a meeting of political hacks, talking strategy in regard to a key nomination for DCA that was in danger of going down by the vote of a guy who is dying, is a Republican, and has been ongoing in his criticism of his own party's President.  Yes, Trump invited all of that, but these people are focused on getting to 50 votes, and McCain's making it hard, essentially because he can.

Kelly Sadler's comment was ill-mannered, but it was not meant for public consumption.  That, to me, IS a huge difference.  The ruckus came about because of tattle-tale leakers stirring crap for selfish ends.  These weren't patriots exposing Watergate; they were cowardly snot-bags who, to this day, are hidden behind anonymity.

I would ask everyone this:  Why should the leakers have leaked what they did?  What specific constructive purpose did it serve, besides giving Trump a ding in his news coverage?  How did the leaking help the Nation?  How did the leaking help the McCain family?  Yes, it was euphoric to Trump's enemies; another negative press story.  How was it beneficial to the Nation that the confidentiality of that private meeting was violated over this matter?  More importantly, how would the Nation have been worse off if these cowards that leaked this had just shut up and the Nation never known about this?  

Wow.
He is still trying to make this entire disgusting comment from a White House aide about "private meetings" and "leakers."
Can you believe it?

[ProudModerate2]

Fuzzy has a perverted way of explaining right from wrong.
In the same sentence, he will tell you how wrong something/someone is, but then tell you how it's OK and acceptable. He did this with Roy Moore (Alabama Senate race) in where he both demonized him and rejoiced his warped religious ways (anti-LGTB policies, etc).
He did this with his constant rhetoric (and endless articles) of how awful the MS-13 gangs are ("brown people"), but then dispel the same evil from white-supremacists gangs.
All this, while using religion, Bible quotes and Jesus to oddly justify it all.

The difference between White Supremacist gangs and MS-13 is that MS-13 is an issue of porous borders as well as criminality, whereas White Supremacist gangs are American citizens that, whatever the evil they do, it's not something surrounding the border security issue.  But, yes, if I were President, I would direct ICE to ensure that no followers of these kinds of White Supremacist movements in Europe be permitted to enter the US, based on ideology.

There's no controversy over what to do about criminal White Supremacist gangs.  Enforce the law.  There is a controversy on what to do about illegal immigration, which involves the entry of criminal gang members who are foreign nationals into our country.  Here, too, I advocate enforcing existing laws.  

ProudModerate2 has no interest in getting his facts straight.

And there you have it folks ....
In Fuzzy's world, evil by gangs in the USA is explained-away depending on what country you are born-in, and if you are a national of this nation or that one.
Instead of seeing the heinous acts committed by gangs equally, it's just a matter of distortion by mimicking trump's bigoted (build the wall) methods.

[ProudModerate2]

Fuzzy has a perverted way of explaining right from wrong.
In the same sentence, he will tell you how wrong something/someone is, but then tell you how it's OK and acceptable. He did this with Roy Moore (Alabama Senate race) in where he both demonized him and rejoiced his warped religious ways (anti-LGTB policies, etc).
He did this with his constant rhetoric (and endless articles) of how awful the MS-13 gangs are ("brown people"), but then dispel the same evil from white-supremacists gangs.
All this, while using religion, Bible quotes and Jesus to oddly justify it all.

The difference between White Supremacist gangs and MS-13 is that MS-13 is an issue of porous borders as well as criminality, whereas White Supremacist gangs are American citizens that, whatever the evil they do, it's not something surrounding the border security issue.  But, yes, if I were President, I would direct ICE to ensure that no followers of these kinds of White Supremacist movements in Europe be permitted to enter the US, based on ideology.

There's no controversy over what to do about criminal White Supremacist gangs.  Enforce the law.  There is a controversy on what to do about illegal immigration, which involves the entry of criminal gang members who are foreign nationals into our country.  Here, too, I advocate enforcing existing laws.  

ProudModerate2 has no interest in getting his facts straight.

And there you have it folks ....
In Fuzzy's world, evil by gangs in the USA is explained-away depending on what country you are born-in, and if you are a national of this nation or that one.
Instead of seeing the heinous acts committed by gangs equally, it's just a matter of distortion by mimicking trump's bigoted (build the wall) methods.

We can't deport White Supremacist Criminal Gang members.  We can only put them in jail/prison when they commit crimes.  And we should.

I do see the heinous acts equally.  The law should be enforced in both cases.  I've never said that White Supremacist gangs should get a pass from being subject to criminal penalties for their criminal actions.  But the ease of which MS-13 members go back and forth across our borders is a justification for increased border security and immigration enforcement.  

I'm making this statement for the rational members of the forum.  ProudModerate2 is unable to disagree with someone in a rational way.  I recognize most of the forum disagrees with me on these issues, but most of you don't actively distort what I've said over time due to their own prejudices either.

This is your past quote to dismiss/dispel fascist and alt-right ways, simply because they have been "here all your life" (PS, fact ... there has been a considerable increase in white-supremacist, alt-right, Nazi bigotry and crime since The Orange Fuhrer has been in office) :

"... It's also a cheap attempt to drive the narrative of America being in the midst of a Fascist Uprising, which is a ridiculous presumption.  The alt-Right has been here all my life, in roughly the same numbers they are now.  To blow them up beyond what they are is incredibly self-serving."

[ProudModerate2]

Basically ... This clownish administration and Faux News is focused more on the leaking of the comment, rather than on the substance of joking about people who are suffering from cancer.

[ProudModerate2]

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