French terror attacks (user search)
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  French terror attacks (search mode)
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Author Topic: French terror attacks  (Read 29939 times)
bedstuy
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Posts: 4,526


Political Matrix
E: -1.16, S: -4.35

« on: January 07, 2015, 01:55:34 PM »

Yes, the most important thing here is for us to be concerned with hurting the terrosists' feelings.

No one are concerned with the terrorists feelings, some of us are concerned with how the far right (ab)uses this and how ISIS may abuse a stupid reaction to gain sympathy among (minor parts of) the Muslim community in Europe and the Middle East.

If someone sees an equivalence between expressing an idea and what ISIS does, there's no reason to cater to them. These "Muslim moderates" who might become terrorists if we make fun of their religion or kill too many people with drones, if they actually exist, they are not moderates.

Free speech is an issue where you need to draw a line in the sand.  You shouldn't allow anyone to chill free speech with threats of violence.  That means you can't silence people because you think they're stupid, or unhelpful, or extreme, or racist, or anything.  We need to have a marketplace of ideas where everyone is on an equal footing.  That means Muslims can't keep bullying people.  So, I think the media should publish offensive cartoons in solidarity.  They can do this to a few brave outlets, but they can't do this to everyone.
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bedstuy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,526


Political Matrix
E: -1.16, S: -4.35

« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2015, 02:58:16 PM »
« Edited: January 07, 2015, 03:01:28 PM by bedstuy »

Yes, the most important thing here is for us to be concerned with hurting the terrosists' feelings.

No one are concerned with the terrorists feelings, some of us are concerned with how the far right (ab)uses this and how ISIS may abuse a stupid reaction to gain sympathy among (minor parts of) the Muslim community in Europe and the Middle East.

If someone sees an equivalence between expressing an idea and what ISIS does, there's no reason to cater to them. These "Muslim moderates" who might become terrorists if we make fun of their religion or kill too many people with drones, if they actually exist, they are not moderates.

Free speech is an issue where you need to draw a line in the sand.  You shouldn't allow anyone to chill free speech with threats of violence.  That means you can't silence people because you think they're stupid, or unhelpful, or extreme, or racist, or anything.  We need to have a marketplace of ideas where everyone is on an equal footing.  That means Muslims can't keep bullying people.  So, I think the media should publish offensive cartoons in solidarity.  They can do this to a few brave outlets, but they can't do this to everyone.


I am not talking about "moderates" here,

I care more about free speech than most people and generally support going quite far to defend it, but there is a time and place for everything. Honouring the memory of witty, sophisticated, talented humanists with a reenactment of the crude and divisive Muhammed-crisis would be wrong.
This is a time to stand united against the Jihadists and demonstrate our contempt for them by mocking them in a clever and funny way in the spirit of the dead masters.

If we have to censor ourselves to stand united with someone, we shouldn't do that.  If free speech is divisive, we've got a long way to go as a society.  This is one of those areas where Europe is far behind the United States.  And, by the way, there's nothing wrong with insulting a religion or making fun of Jesus, or Moses, or Mohammed, or L. Ron Hubbard. 

If we make it taboo as a society to offend one religion because its adherents constantly use violence and constantly play the victim card, we reward their tactics and we legitimize their behavior.  We also insult Muslims because we turn them into infantile victims who can't participate in the marketplace of ideas without special rules.  That's the problem here.  Making fun of Islam should be no different from making fun of libertarianism or socialism.  Until it is, we need people like this poking them with a stick. 
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