When the Vatican gets it right...

[12th Doctor]

...it is just a worthy of reporting. Excellent, if expected, news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said while the Church had been hostile to Darwin's theory in the past, the idea of evolution could be traced to St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas.

Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, Professor of Theology at the Pontifical Santa Croce University in Rome, added that 4th century theologian St Augustine had "never heard the term evolution, but knew that big fish eat smaller fish" and forms of life had been transformed "slowly over time". Aquinas made similar observations in the Middle Ages.

Ahead of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin's On the Origin of Species, the Vatican is also set to play down the idea of Intelligent Design, which argues a "higher power" must be responsible for the complexities of life.

The conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University will discuss Intelligent Design to an extent, but only as a "cultural phenomenon" rather than a scientific or theological issue.

Monsignor Ravasi said Darwin's theories had never been formally condemned by the Roman Catholic Church, pointing to comments more than 50 years ago, when Pope Pius XII described evolution as a valid scientific approach to the development of humans.

Marc Leclerc, who teaches natural philosophy at the Gregorian University, said the "time has come for a rigorous and objective valuation" of Darwin by the Church as the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth approaches.

Professor Leclerc argues that too many of Darwin's opponents, primarily Creationists, mistakenly claim his theories are "totally incompatible with a religious vision of reality".

Earlier this week, prominent scientists and leading religious figures wrote to The Daily Telegraph to call for an end to the fighting over Darwin's legacy.

They argued that militant atheists are turning people away from evolution by using it to attack religion while they also urge believers in creationism to acknowledge the overwhelming body of evidence that now exists to support Darwin's theory.

The Church of England is seeking to bring Darwin back into the fold with a page on its website paying tribute to his "forgotten" work in his local parish, showing science and religion need not be at odds.

What is wrong with this story is that it isn't news.  This has been the position of the Vatican for 60 years now.

[12th Doctor]

I am a little confused, so please enlighten me...

Does the Catholic church believe we are all descended from the Adam of Genesis, or not?

This is from Americancatholic.org:

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that is NOT what catholic.com says:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

You must be logged in to read this quote.

First off, it is Catholic Answers, not "catholic.com".  Secondly, while Catholic Answers is generally a great scource for information, it is also extremely orthodox in its general outlook.  Do you want to quote a site that still preaches that the Catholic sacraments are the only true path to salvation, when the Church officially abandoned that idea 40 years ago?

[12th Doctor]

Eitherway, belief or lack there of in evolution is not a viewed as a necessary matter of faith.  If a Catholic still chooses to deny evolution entirely, they are more than welcome to that opinion.  However, Pius XII, who Catholic Answers quotes, ended the war on science, for once and for all time.  The war on science only began in the 15th century anyway.  Prior to that, the Catholic Church was the leading scientific body in Europe, for, as the attitude was taken 800 years ago, and now today, if God exists, then what do we have to fear from the truth?

[12th Doctor]

http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

You must be logged in to read this quote.

First off, it is Catholic Answers, not "catholic.com".  Secondly, while Catholic Answers is generally a great scource for information, it is also extremely orthodox in its general outlook.  Do you want to quote a site that still preaches that the Catholic sacraments are the only true path to salvation, when the Church officially abandoned that idea 40 years ago?

are you saying catholic.com misquoted Pope Pius XII?  if not, sounds like to me Pius XII stated belief that all of us are descended from Adam and Eve is not a option for Christians.

in any case, do you believe we are all descended from Adam?

This is what happens when fools take people out of context.  Yes, Pius said we are all descended from Adam.  But, he was saying that to contradict the notion that anyone one human, Christian or non-Christian, is more advanced, or greater than any other (a notion you would most likely disagree with).  Basically, he was denying Nazism, genocide, etc, and the notion that there is such a thing as an "elect" (from birth) and that should be used to discriminate against other human beings.

It is one of the many statements that Pius made against Nazi practices that people ignore, or bash for not having been "clear enough".  It is a metaphor, for saying that we are all the same people in God's eyes.

[12th Doctor]

Like I said, I use Catholic Answers as a source, but they have an agenda too, so I always make sure to double check what they say.  95% of the time, there info is not at all misleading.

[12th Doctor]

Yes, Pius said we are all descended from Adam.

then I am confused with the point of this whole thread.  Seems to me, believing that we all came from Adam is the antithesis of evolution.

Wow.  We aren't only hear what we want to hear, are we?

[12th Doctor]

And so I will say again, Pius, in Humani Generis was attacking the moral implications of ideas that some have drawn out of evolutionary theory... eugenics being a big one.  He was not launching a direct assault on evolution.

[12th Doctor]

Yes, Pius said we are all descended from Adam.

then I am confused with the point of this whole thread.  Seems to me, believing that we all came from Adam is the antithesis of evolution.

Wow.  We aren't only hear what we want to hear, are we?

Am I?

I must have missed the post that reconciled evolution with the belief we all came from a single person (Adam).

Can you kindly point me to that post?

(Or are you saying that Pius did NOT believe that we are all descended from Adam?!)

You were one of those children that had a really hard time understanding Animal Farm and The Chronicles are Narnia weren't you?

[12th Doctor]

Yes, Pius said we are all descended from Adam.

then I am confused with the point of this whole thread.  Seems to me, believing that we all came from Adam is the antithesis of evolution.

Wow.  We aren't only hear what we want to hear, are we?

Am I?

I must have missed the post that reconciled evolution with the belief we all came from a single person (Adam).

Can you kindly point me to that post?

(Or are you saying that Pius did NOT believe that we are all descended from Adam?!)

You were one of those children that had a really hard time understanding Animal Farm and The Chronicles are Narnia weren't you?

Since Supersoulty refuses to answer the question, can anyone deduce whether or not Pius XII beleived that we were all descended from a single man, who is referred to in Genesis and commonly known as "Adam"?

I did answer the question.  You seem to have failed to notice my answer though.  Nothing new about that.  That's why I stopped posting in our last debate.

[12th Doctor]

A couple of them after the "rediscovery" are chillingly accurate, but that is bound to happen for a couple.  What about the other 30?

[12th Doctor]

Since Supersoulty refuses to answer the question, can anyone deduce whether or not Pius XII beleived that we were all descended from a single man, who is referred to in Genesis and commonly known as "Adam"?

I did answer the question.  You seem to have failed to notice my answer though.  Nothing new about that.  That's why I stopped posting in our last debate.

I can not find your answer to the question.  Do you mind posting your previous answer?

Perhaps you ought to read more carefully, then.

[12th Doctor]

This is not for your benefit, jmf, but rather for the benefit of anyone who might read what you have to say and mistakenly think that you have a point.

I used to have alot of respect for you as a theologian, but as I have learned more, the more it has become apparent to me that you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about.  You are basically one of those people who can quote any passage of scripture, but can't grasp its meaning beyond plain text.  You are scripture what a dictionary is to literature.

This is what happens when fools take people out of context.  Yes, Pius said we are all descended from Adam.  But, he was saying that to contradict the notion that anyone one human, Christian or non-Christian, is more advanced, or greater than any other (a notion you would most likely disagree with).  Basically, he was denying Nazism, genocide, etc, and the notion that there is such a thing as an "elect" (from birth) and that should be used to discriminate against other human beings.

It is one of the many statements that Pius made against Nazi practices that people ignore, or bash for not having been "clear enough".  It is a metaphor, for saying that we are all the same people in God's eyes.

[12th Doctor]

This is what happens when fools take people out of context.  Yes, Pius said we are all descended from Adam.  But, he was saying that to contradict the notion that anyone one human, Christian or non-Christian, is more advanced, or greater than any other (a notion you would most likely disagree with).  Basically, he was denying Nazism, genocide, etc, and the notion that there is such a thing as an "elect" (from birth) and that should be used to discriminate against other human beings.

It is one of the many statements that Pius made against Nazi practices that people ignore, or bash for not having been "clear enough".  It is a metaphor, for saying that we are all the same people in God's eyes.

sorry, I didn't notice your statment (which I placed in red) the first time I read your post...

Supersoulty, I am having trouble reconciling your interpretation of Pius  (which I placed in red) with the actual statement of Pius:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sounds like Pius is stating that we are all physically descended from Adam and the original sin was actually committed by an individual Adam and it was passed through generation to all of us.

In fact, the way I read Pius XII is that he is clearly stating that the belief that we are all phyically descended from Adam is NOT an option

Is that not a fair interpretation of what Pius is saying?

---

[just noticed I overwrote a previous post of mine...sorry for the confusion...I've tried to combine the elements of both]

Pius said that belief in the evolutionary theory that all humans had a common source is not anti-Christian.  But, that wasn't the only theory of evolution that was prominent when he wrote those words.  There were people who believed that "humanity" sprouted up in different places, from slightly different creatures.  There were scientific racists.  Eugenics was still quite popular.  What Pius is addressing here is those theories of evolution.  The ones that said some people are different and better than other people.  The belief that any walking, talking, thinking creature is in any way different or inherently superior to another is anti-Christian because it violates the notion that God created us all in his own image, equally.

Pius makes a stand for that, because that is that ballgame, right there.