Educated Catholics have sown dissent and confusion in the Church, claims bishop

[12th Doctor]

I would invite everyone to take note of the fact that this is one bishop.  So basically, this is kinda like saying "Congressman so-in-so said today...."

The Catholic Church is, and always has been, one of the greatest champions of scientific and educational advancement.

[12th Doctor]

The Catholic Church is, and always has been, one of the greatest champions of scientific and educational advancement.

I'm sure those involved in stem cell research agree.

Yeah, well, astrology was once the height of scientific inquiry as well.

Besides, your point is moot.  The church has listened to its best minds from the start, who contended that it could be done without using embryos, and supported that position.  Low and behold, they were correct.

[12th Doctor]

The Catholic Church is, and always has been, one of the greatest champions of scientific and educational advancement.

But we don't even teach evolution in our schools! Oh...wait...

I'm just surprised no one has mentioned Galileo yet, because I am more than ready for that one.

[12th Doctor]

what about what the church did to galileo?

The way the trial of Galileo is typically portrayed is as a scene of a bunch of ignorant old men in red hats trying this great thinker because Church doctrine said that he must be wrong.  That's not the case at all.  In fact, the Church never taught a geocentric universe as part of doctrine.  What they were trying him on was the science. 

At that time, Aristotle was seen as being the best science, and his model of the universe had survived 2,000 years.  The men that sat in on the trial weren't fools.  Some of them were accomplished natural scientists.

[12th Doctor]

If you are wondering "well then why was he put on trial" it was because he was thought to have disobeyed the Pope, although he hadn't.

What happened was that his work was challenged by the scientific academies in Rome.  He was brought there by the Pope and was asked to delay writing anymore on his work, since, with the Protestant Revolution in full tilt, he didn't want another controversy on his hands.  Galileo asked the Pope if he could write a work that presented both sides, but got his argument out.  The Pope agreed.  But when his work came out, the science academy went into an uproar and simply assumed the Pope had not approved of the work.  The Pope, not wanting to weaken his own house and cause more scandal, caved and said he had not approved, though it seemed pretty clear to all that he had.  High ranking Church officials then used this as an excuse to put Galileo on trial, because he had challenged the Pope, just like all the Protestant heretics, and thus was no better than any of them.  It seems clear that the Pope himself simply allowed his judgment to be overridden by the Cardinals, in a moment of weakness.

BTW... as an aside, no one ever thought the world was flat.  Even the earliest depictions of Christ in art show him holding a ball to symbolize the world.

[12th Doctor]

At that time, Aristotle was seen as being the best science, and his model of the universe had survived 2,000 years.  The men that sat in on the trial weren't fools.  Some of them were accomplished natural scientists.

...who put a man on trial for disagreeing with their traditional view of science.  The fact that they were accomplished scientists hardly makes things better.

Sometimes "yeah, that was f**ked up" is a lot more effective than apologism on that kind of thing.  Bless the Jesuits indeed.

Didn't say it wasn't.  I was simply saying that it wasn't what is often thought.

[12th Doctor]

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And completely wrong. And so sure of themselves and the Aristotelian status-quo that defended their own reputation to the last.

But they had been right about a number of other things, is the point I was trying to get across.  They were pretty familiar with logic and the scientific method.