Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus

[12th Doctor]

The notion that "if you don't worship my god(s) in my way then you'll be damned forever" is not unique to the Catholic Church, BRTD. Other religions aside, many Christian sects believe that other Christian sects are going to hell because they just aren't getting it right, and many more such sects believe non-Christians don't even stand a chance of going to heaven. Why single out the Catholics?

1-The Catholic church is the largest of these sects.

What does that matter? The size of the church doesn't change the doctrine. That's a completely irrelevant fact in this debate.

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Well maybe they actually don't believe it the way you like to say they believe it then. What J.J. points out makes a pretty strong case against your argument.

BRTD is a bigoted fool who is not only ignorant, but aggressively so... he doesn't want to know the truth, because then he would be faced with his intellectual dishonesty.  Problem is that, on this particular subject, there are hundreds of millions of more like him out there.

[12th Doctor]

The notion that "if you don't worship my god(s) in my way then you'll be damned forever" is not unique to the Catholic Church, BRTD. Other religions aside, many Christian sects believe that other Christian sects are going to hell because they just aren't getting it right, and many more such sects believe non-Christians don't even stand a chance of going to heaven. Why single out the Catholics?

1-The Catholic church is the largest of these sects.
2-The Catholic church is the only one that likes to pretend that isn't the case.

Actually, you missed the closing statement.

"for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which, according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Thank you for stepping up and pointing out the obvious.  I'm just getting tired of it.

[12th Doctor]

Negative, but so what?  Nearly every religion believes this.

Catholicism isn't a religion and most Protestant denominations do not say there is no salvation outside of that specific Protestant denomination.

Show me where this Catholic Church says this.  I am begging you.  If you could I would renounce Catholicism this very moment and spend the rest of my days on the forum exposing the superiority of your intellect.

I know I risk nothing by this, because it quite simply can't be demonstrated.

As for your other points... I am sure any Protestant denomination would say you were going to Hell if you found their practices revolting.  Why should any Church have anything good to say about those who hate it?

You are probably also not aware that when Catholics speak of the Church, they are not only talking about the actual Church structure, but also the entire communion of God.  The Catholic Church is the only Christian Church that claims to be universal, so any claims about salvation by the Church have to be thusly interpreted.  Of course an unknowing person such as yourself wouldn't recognize the distinction.

[12th Doctor]

*bump*

BRTD already looks like an idiot, but I would still love for him to answer my question.

[12th Doctor]

What I just linked to the doctrine that says that.

I haven't heard of any mainstream Protestant denoms saying the Pope is going to hell despite his comments about Protestants.

Dumbass... the Pope never said Protestants are going to Hell.  Your mommy is making it up.

[12th Doctor]

He made that "deficient" or whatever comment a few months ago.

And for the 90 millionth and last f***ing time, the position of the Catholic Church is that they are not complete Christians, but they are Christians, and since God's grace is dispensed by God and not by the Church directly, they are not going to Hell simply for not being Catholic.

And as JJ pointed out, and you clearly ignored, not that link you posted doesn't tell the whole story, because it leaves out the second part of the doctrine, which is:

"for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which, according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit."

And as I pointed out, the Church makes a clear distinction between being a full fledged member of the Catholic Church organization and being a part of The Church... which is the universal body of Christ.  Again, while the Catholic Church claims to be the universal church (as is implicit in the word "Catholic", it recognizes that Christ's Church extends beyond the organization of the Catholic Church.

It's not "secret code" or "convoluted" its just that you don't understand it.  Oh well, your ignorance isn't the fault of the Pope.

[12th Doctor]

BTW... I have no clue what you mean when you say that no Mainstream Protestant denomination condemns Catholicism.  I bet I could find a mountain of popular mainstream Protestant writers who openly question if the Pope is the anti-Christ and whether or not the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

Using your standards, that should be good enough.

[12th Doctor]

So.Baptist is the biggest of them all bud.

And I can certainly dig up plenty of books from "respected" Methodist, Presbyterian and Lutheran authors that say the same thing.

Catholics worship Mary and think the Pope is the successor to Jesus.  Everyone knows that.

[12th Doctor]

Yeah.  It was mainly the worship of Mary that got hit all the time in my church.

Except we don't "worship" her.

I'm pretty sure he knows that.