I Need Help

[12th Doctor]

Okay, here is the situation:

I am writing a 20 page paper on nationalism in Europe.  The main focus of my paper is going to be anti-EU parties and groups in Europe, but I also want info on tracking polls for EU constitution support, some anti-EU columnists in Europe and any type of "man on the street" info you can give me.  It's due on Thursday.  ANY help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

[12th Doctor]

Hey guys, I still need help here, please.

[12th Doctor]

I would check EBSCO. We use it alot for research papers at school. All you need is a PA Public Library Card, although I'm pretty sure that your college library would have access. The website is www.powerlibrary.org, IIRC.

I am aware of it.  That is not what I am looking for.  I don't want papers written by snooty achedemics, I want to cut through the "holy than thou art" crap that the Europeans try to pull against us and get down to the reality of what is going on.

[12th Doctor]

We don't really have this sort of "columnist" culture here, so pass on this one.
The EU constitution doesn't really ignite much passion in Germany, pro or con...the fact that the people won't be able to vote on it helps, I guess...but I can't even remember seeing any recent or demirecent polls on support. There were occasional polls on support for the Euro (which was never high...though nowadays few people still want the Mark back). Last summer, there was sort of a "debate" on whether there should be a referendum on the EU constitution. The CDU claimed they wanted one, then as usual backed off when they were taken seriously. (Referenda on the national stage are actually constitutionally banned in Germany...don't ask me why...and the ban is close to the CDU's heart...don't ask me why...and of course you can't change the constitution without them). What else do you want to know?

What about neo-nazism in Germany, and other nationalist groups and movements.  What about anti-Turkish sentiment in Germany, as well.  Anything concrete you can give me there?

Also, anything about your governments attemps to ignore, or play-down the problem?

[12th Doctor]

http://europa.eu.int/comm/public_opinion/index_en.htm

Will this help you any?

Yes, thank you.

[12th Doctor]

In the 2004 European Elections, UKIP (anti-EU party) took third place (ahead of the LibDems).
They did best in the West Country, the old Notts-Derbyshire coalfield and various retirement resorts along the east coast. All areas are very socially conservative.

Thank you.  What else can you tell me about it?  Or about the BNP for that matter?  Do you have any hard info you can give to me?

[12th Doctor]

So, then you would all agree that the "Euro-intellectual" idea of the EU being a kind of "death of nationalism" in Europe is no where near the truth, not only because there is growing opposition, but also because those who are not opposed really don't give a damn?

[12th Doctor]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

[12th Doctor]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

(yawn) also sometimes said of the Germans. Tiny kernel of truth created largely by Britain's ridiculous behaviour. Otherwise hilarious.

Sorry. Running out of patience. If you already know what sort of extremist anti-EU paper you want to produce, why ask me?

No, that is not the point of my paper.  The point is to analys nationalism in Europe and I intend to prove that the EU is not only not ending nationalism, but acctually taking it to new hieghts that have not been seen since the start of the Cold War.

So, you blame the British for "ridiculous behavior".  Tell me, is it common for the people of EU countires to disparage other EU member states?

[12th Doctor]

So, then you would all agree that the "Euro-intellectual" idea of the EU being a kind of "death of nationalism" in Europe is no where near the truth, not only because there is growing opposition, but also because those who are not opposed really don't give a damn?

I'm not sure you can really talk about "growing opposition". "Waxing and waning" is more like it, while the EU itself grows in strength.
I don't see a "death of nationalism" around the corner though - although the ancient German/French antagonistic nationalism is certainly dead as a doornail. Which is easily the most important development in Europe 1945-89.
And just because lots of people don't care one bit about the minutiae, doesn't mean they don't care about the European idea.

But yeah, it's definitely true that the EU somewhat fails to emote. Due to a lack of democratic legitimation, mostly. Although the European Parliament is elected (in elections that were taken as serious as the national ones for a short while in the late 70s/early 80s, but not since...and which therefore suffer from ridiculously low turnout), the Commission is created largely by the heads of government. It's sorta like as if the Electoral College were made up of the State Governors.

Do you think that this lack of "democratic" process is due largely to the fact that the governments of EU nations want it, but fear their people don't and thus don't trust them to handle the matter Democratically?

[12th Doctor]

Thanks, Angus.

[12th Doctor]

Thank you, everyone, for the help.  I quoted many of your comments in my paper.  I esspecially liked this one, from Gus. 

This was acctually in the conclusion of the paper.

About the constitution the general picture in Europe is nobody cares about it and of those who do I think most are sceptical. Generally, the population in Northern Europe (Scandinavia, the UK, Austria, nowadays also the Netherlands and Germany) are pretty unhappy with the EU. In Southern Europe people are more positive. But no average man cares much for the EU, it's by and large a project for, by and of politicians.

[12th Doctor]

What is all of your guy's oppinion about the idea that the French are using the EU as a away of strengthening their own global power by making themselves the defacto leaders of Europe?

(yawn) also sometimes said of the Germans. Tiny kernel of truth created largely by Britain's ridiculous behaviour. Otherwise hilarious.

Sorry. Running out of patience. If you already know what sort of extremist anti-EU paper you want to produce, why ask me?

No, that is not the point of my paper.  The point is to analys nationalism in Europe and I intend to prove that the EU is not only not ending nationalism, but acctually taking it to new hieghts that have not been seen since the start of the Cold War.

So, you blame the British for "ridiculous behavior".  Tell me, is it common for the people of EU countires to disparage other EU member states?

So, in other words, you're letting personal prejudice influence your judgment instead of writing an objective assessment of the situation.

That is the conclusion that I ahve come to after my study of the subject matter.  I have studied the subject of nationalism (in particular in Europe) quite extensivly.  The problem was, I was not allowed to use the material we used in class in the paper.

[12th Doctor]

And my paper was objective, Mike.  Its objective was to prove my point.  Regardless of whether you guys knew it or not, you acctually did it quite nicely.  Well, Gus knew it, but other than that.

[12th Doctor]

Heh, point taken, but it was a highly subjective point driven mostly by a political agenda. There's nothing objective about coming up with a hypothesis and then bending, or rather deliberately interpreting the facts to support that hypothesis. It is, however, objective to look at a topic without any personal foreboding and simply analyse the facts as they are and then come up with a conclusion.

But I suppose, if anything, this is a simple case of linguistics, ie. you're using objective as a noun whereas I used it as an adjective (after all both have different meanings in and of themselves).

I mean, you could take what Gus, Lewis, Al, et al have said and support your hypothesis. Sure. However, equally, you could pick other aspects of their statements and suggest entirely the opposite. It's neither here nor there, really. An objective assessment would be one which looks at both sides of the argument, not simply one or the other.

I understand that, it was classic example of my flawed sense of humor.

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Nationalism exists regardless of whether you disagree with it or not and I doubt you do.  Only ivory-tower elitest intellectuals can even pretend to not feel some nationalist feelings, regardless of their claims of being "internationalist".  Hobsbaum is a ing joke.

Anyway, you missed the point of my paper, which was not how EU countries are using the system to promote thier nationalism, but how the rise of immigration, unemployment and EU involvement has caused many peopel in Europe to "rediscover" their nationalism, sometimes in a benign and sometimes in an extreme way.