Bradley Manning wants to live as a woman

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

[Kitteh]

I think he might very well need HRT to live a non-torturous existence in prison but I don't want to say for sure because trans* people's experiences can vary pretty widely.

Sorry for this ignorant question, but what does the asterisk in "trans*" stand for?

Its used to indicate all the different things that may follow the term "trans". The general idea behind the asterisk is to show that "trans" is an umbrella term, that covers a lot of different types of people with different but related experiences; such as those who identify as the opposite side of the gender binary from what they were assigned at birth ("male to female" or the reverse), people who don't identify as male or female, intersex people (those who are biologically not strictly "male" or "female", i.e. those with ambiguous genitalia, xxy or x dna chromosomes, and a whole bunch of others). I don't use it much for simplicity but I definitely agree with the motive behind its use.

[Kitteh]

btw, DADT never affected trans people, and the repeal of it didn't either. The military position was and is that being trans and pursuing any sort of treatment (hrt, etc) is grounds for discharge and that people who are trans are barred from joining the military whether they stay closeted or not.

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Maybe she just want's to get on with her life as best she can without being thought of as a hero. I never got the whiff of narcissism about her that you get with Assange but someone who obviously has personal issues which are best dealt with privately.

Yeah, that's all very true, but at this point its impossible for her personal life not to become political, for better or worse.

[Kitteh]

A friend messaged me this story on fb and literally one of the first things I thought was "oh yeah the atlas forum thread about this is gonna be great".

To anybody who has been following her story this isn't news in any way whatsoever. The only new thing here is the name Chelsea; before this she had used Breanna in all the times she discussed it with people.

Anyway, regarding hrt in prison and all:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/20/60451.htm

The state of trans people in prison has been some of the most horrific ignored issues in America for a long time. If this leads to more discussion and maybe even some changes (through the courts, obviously) then she undoubtedly deserves to be remembered as one of the great heroes of our time.

Come on.

The horrible treatment of trans people in prison is a civil rights issue, and I have immense respect for anyone who fights for the civil rights of people in prison, who are one of the easiest groups to demonize, dehumanize, and strip of their basic human rights. Sure, my opinion of her is personally biased, but that's natural-everyone is biased towards those who they can relate to.

Who says he's fighting for those similar to him? As of now it sounds more like he just wants to solve a personal issue of his own instead of a crusade for all trans people.

In practice the two are indistinguishable at this point.

[Kitteh]

How does it feel knowing that a woman has more balls than you?

*facepalm*

He's not a woman. This is physically demonstrable and is not up for dispute. If he had a sex change then yes, he would be a woman. But until then, no.

I'm actually mildly curious here; what would you define "having a sex change" as?

[Kitteh]

prison rape jokes are obviously the greatest form of internet humor

[Kitteh]

I love how Link is now complaining about how male-dominated this place is.

[Kitteh]

Isn't it enough that she will lose 35 years of her life in prison? Why should she also be forced to also endure being psychologically unwell by being forced to live as a man? I'm biased, of course, but it makes sense to me. Yes, it costs the state money - but disallowing it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. If you happened to have a chronic but not life threatening disease when you entered prison, would the services and medication you need remain unavailable? Only because people struggle to empathise with her specific condition do they question her. Some of you need to grow up.

HShe should pay for it himself. Any other (non criminal) American would have to.

Unlike any other (criminal or non criminal) Brit or Canadian (in almost all provinces) or German or Swede or Australian or Brazilian or Cuban or even Iranian (yes, really). You know, it upsets me too that Americans in prison have access to better healthcare than most Americans, but the solution to that is to give better healthcare to most Americans, not take it away from American prisoners.

[Kitteh]

FWIW, Link's arguments re: "unstable mental state" and "making decisions about this stuff while in a bad condition", etc, are extremely familiar to me, because they're pretty much the exact same stuff that was thrown at me by family and others when I first came out. That same thing about "no doctor will prescribe to anyone in this kind of circumstance", too. Fortunately, that was total bs, and I did get a prescription from hrt. As a 17 year old who had just gotten out of a mental hospital a few weeks ago and had "decided"/realized/w.e about this less than a year before. From the second doctor I ever went to. Yeah, "no medical professional would believe this" indeed

We're supposed to consider this guy a woman because he says so? I can call myself the queen of Romania. Doesn't make it so. Being a woman requires two x chromosomes and zero y chromosomes. Basic biology doesn't care what crazy ideas women's studies has put into your head. Doctors can do impressive things, but they can't change a man into a woman. He was born male and he'll die male.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_X_syndrome

Nope, try again.

[Kitteh]

Most gender roles are constructed, not gender. To suggest that gender is constructed by society is to really fundamentally misunderstand it as well as biology from about 7th grade life science up.

Actually, the belief that there are two and only two genders and that 100% of human beings fall into those two genders is either a social construction or based in ignorance or misunderstanding of biology. There is zero strictly biological support for denying the existence of some individuals who are neither male nor female. Not that I think looking solely to biology for the answer here is the right way to go.


Anyway, the relationship between social constructionism and trans issues is a very interesting topic to me, and something I think about a lot without a real clear answer to. I haven't really found any answer I feel is 100% right to the questions of how much of gender is socially constructed, what the alternative to social construction is, whether that's even a false dichotomy or entirely meaningless, what the terms "gender", "gender roles", etc even mean, and so on. It's the kind of thing I can't really summarize my thoughts on without some long (probably incomprehensible and rambling) post, and frankly I'm too lazy to write that out :b. Given that all of these issues are rather new to widespread discussion in America or most of the world, I don't think it's surprising that "the answer" to plenty of questions surrounding gender hasn't been "found" yet.

That said, I'm very sure that in the absence of a concrete "answer", the best way to act is with empathy towards the people for who issues of gender are not an academic discussion but a very real, emotional, and painful reality.